t500 false neutrals

[Monkey man]

Hi ihave a suzuki t500 that ive owned for about 10 yrs. I keep hitting false neutrals especialy when the bike is cold.
ive also noticed it smokes more on the lh silencer than it does on the right.

any ideas what to look at first
thanks
monkey man

[ConnerVT]

any ideas what to look at first

Another motorcycle that isn't 40 years old?

I'll address the second question first. There could be several reasons for smoking more on one side than the other. To narrow it down, more info is needed. Only when cold or warm? Does it become less severe after a good, near WOT ride? Or is it constantly smoking more? How much is "more"? This will help us narrow down the possibilites.

As far as the "false" neutrals, the T500 was never known for having the smoothest shifting. I still mess up a 4 to 5 shift on mine. (I had forgotten about that, as it did the same on my first T500, too). You really shouldn't be finding neutral anywhere other than where it belongs, 1st and 2nd. If it was my bike, I would likely suspect something worn inside the case - Shifter drum or forks, or something binding on the gear shafts. Looking inside is likely where you will find the issue.

[Fritz500]

My T500 used to smoke a little bit worse on the right side. New seals on the crank and now there is virtually no smoke visible up to 60kmh (35mph).

Mine was not shifting all that well either. When I had it in bits I checked every single piece of the transmission to make sure there was no slop or tightness in the system. Reassembled it and it still shifts poorly if I don't rev it. Changing at 3500 plus it seems to rarely miss a shift. I usually shift at 2500 and have trouble mostly with 4th and 5th.

Years ago some old codger who seemed to think he knew all about T500s said to me "Keep your chain tensioned and it'll shift better". I couldn't think of any reason why that would make a difference.

I just try to shift a bit more carefully and live with the occasional missed ones.

Geoff

[Coyote]

I has a brand Y slug that missed shifts all the time and when it did hit it did so with a loud CLUNK. In steps the know it all old codger. He tells me to 'preload' the shifter with your toe before actually shifting. He was right. With a little practice it shifted smooth and quiet. Of course this was a totally different animal. A shaft driven V twin. Might be worth a shot though?

[Monkey man]

Hi guys thanks fo the replies - the bike smokes on the LHS more than the RHS no matter ether its hot or cold. A following rider estimated nearly twice as much .
the false neutrals seem to be getting more frequent especially between first and second but they occur elsewhere as well .
its extremely annoying when im revving through the gears and I hit a false neutral sending the rev counter round the dial.

Could I be losing / burning oil and the two symptons be related ?

[Suzukidave]

Just moving the shift lever down a notch will sometimes help with missed shifting .

[ConnerVT]

Could I be losing / burning oil and the two symptons be related ?

Yes, this is possible. Didn't want to jump to this conclusion, until you clarified the smoking problem.

A common problem is the check valves (now 40+ years old) allowing some 2-stroke oil to pass by. The motor, when started, already has too much oil in it, and smokes more. Warm it up, give it some good open throttle time, and it clears itself out. If the left side valves are leakier than the right, then more smoke on the left.

But if it is smoking all the time, more on one side than the other, the inner oil seal of the crankshaft could be the issue. And if this is lowering the level of oil in the crankcase, then there is less oil for the transmission to lubricate properly.

I would drain the transmission oil, and accurately measure how much you get out. (Of course, you never get all of it out, but it will at least be a data point.) Refill it with fresh oil, accurately measuring how much you put in. (1200cc for early T500 / 1400 for '74+ and those with oil dam modification.)

See if fresh oil helps your shifting problem (it may or may not, depending on the amount and condition the oil that comes out is). Ride for awhile, then see how much oil you have when you drain it again. (How long? It depends. Long enough.)

You could also do a leak down test, and see if seems that you seals are still intact.

[Monkey man]

Thanks guys at least I have something to go on - i will investigate further and let you know how I get on.

[Monkey man]

Hi guys - just thought I would post an update. I took the advice and drained the oil ang got less than 900cc out of it - goodness knows what happened to the other 500cc. Anyway I put in 1400cc of fresh oil and took it for a spin and hey presto not one false neutral- result!

In order to keep an eye on the oil level I, ve used a t- hex key to dip it and mark the level on the key leg so that i will know in future if im losing it

Cheers

[Fritz500]

Hi guys - just thought I would post an update. I took the advice and drained the oil ang got less than 900cc out of it - goodness knows what happened to the other 500cc. Anyway I put in 1400cc of fresh oil and took it for a spin and hey presto not one false neutral- result!

In order to keep an eye on the oil level I, ve used a t- hex key to dip it and mark the level on the key leg so that i will know in future if im losing it

Cheers

Your crank seals may be shot and you're burning the trannie oil.

Good news though that you found the problem. You may want to take a look at the transmission to see how the gears coped with the low oil level.

[PippiFyrecracker]

I've been having the same problems, I just changed both the outer crank seals and I've been test riding it, I'm hitting false neutral between 4th and 5th sometimes, and I have to hold the shifter up while I disengage the clutch till it catches. I'm also having issues switching into neutral when stopped for a light etc.(stuck in first) I'm going to check and see if I'm still losing oil, and I'm definitely planning on picking up or making a leakdown tester. I'm hoping I don't have to tear apart the motor at the beginning of riding season :/

[PippiFyrecracker]

just thought I'd post an update, I'm no longer losing oil, and I'm rarely hitting false neutrals, I've noticed a huge difference with hiway riding, I'm assuming this bike likes to be cranked on and hates the city riding.

[ConnerVT]

Well, a 2 stroke =//= a 4 stroke.

Two strokes do like engine revs. But comparing the Suzuki 2-strokes to others (Kawi and Yamaha), the Suzuki has much more torque, making it fairly pleasant to roll on the throttle at 3K RPM (where others won't be happy until 4K+).

Ignition timing and or carb jetting may be in order, if it really seems unhappy around town.

[GT750Battleship]

Hi,yes the big Suzuki's are very under stressed beasts & don't require a lot of revs to get them "going" the 250's like to be given the berries for rapid forward progress
Cheers,
Roger

[johnakay]

to make a dip stick using a cable tie.
the oil cap is plastic or rubber.
cut the cable tie to the desired length.
bend or fold the end that goes into the oil cap and fill it with hot glue(I didn't, I just put a point and let it dig into the side of the oil cap.)
put your cap back into the engine,pull out the plug and mark the c/tie at the oil line.
every now and then check the oil level..................