T500 oil pump repair problem

[CJF]

My new 8x14x4 seal came in. The outside of the new seal measures 14.2. I pulled the old seal out on a spare pump and it was a tight fit. When I installed the new seal, it fit in very easily (didn't drop out) and when I rotated the shaft, the seal rotated with it....not good! Pretty sure the 8x14x4 seal size on that old thread is wrong. I can't see what the markings say on the old seal...they are not the typical seal size markings. It looks like the letter H, but can't read the 2 numbers beside it. need a magnifying glass, but don't have one. Not sure if that is some other kind of seal size marking?

[jabcb]

The first top oil seal I got was from the UK & has an OD of .557"
The second top oil seal I got was from BocaBearings was .561"

My spacer (upper arrow part) has an ID of .562"
Got a pump off of eBay that should show up later this week.

Am looking into using an inch-based oil seal.
This is what I've found so far:

Dichtomatik seal
.312" x .562" x .125"
single lip + no spring + rubber or metal OD
availability unknown in US
https://catalog.dichtomatik.us/catalog/ ... rt=0310561

Harwal seal
.313" x .563" x .25"
single lip + spring + rubber OD
availability unknown in US
http://harwal.com/product/14897

.310" x .560" x .120" (7.87mm x 14.22mm x 3.05mm)
single lip + spring + rubber OD
in stock in UK
http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p32002 ... _info.html

5/16" x 9/16" x ? (.3125" x .5625" x ?)
double lip + spring + rubber OD
out of stock in NZ
http://www.bearingandengineering.co.nz/ ... +SEAL.html

for reference:
mm inch
8 = .315
14 = .551
14.2 = .559
14.3 = .463
4 = .157

[CJF]

I'd be willing to bet that the sizing is some kind of special JIS measure. Some of those inch sizes may work.

I sent an email to this company in Atlanta today http://www.epm.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to see how much it might be to make up custom sized seals. They can take your existing seal and replicate it. I have not heard back yet. Looks like they can do it, but the price might be real high due to the low quantity I would need. In any case, it is good to know these kind of companies are out there.

[jabcb]

Other members will likely be interested in going in on the purchase of seals.
Let us know if you are going to place an order.

[Bloop2]

I'd be willing to bet that the sizing is some kind of special JIS measure. Some of those inch sizes may work.

OK....I couldn't stay away and read this stuff without updating, so I'm back. There is no such thing as a JIS seal, what is stamped on the seal is metric. I have 5 oil pumps and have only taken apart 3 but they all say 8x14x4 on the seal , see the attached picture. The only thing that may have been JIS would have been the O rings as they do still come in JIS sizes. It's hard to say what the original O rings were sized at, they have shrunk and dried out, they could have been JIS or DIN metric, either way, the O rings can be a little off in sizing and still work, but not the oil seals. I finally received my 9.5x16x4 seals, double lip as described by Winderosa, not made by them as originally led to believe by Winderosa. Labeled Winderosa, made in Taiwan, and called a crankshaft oil seal. It is identical to the original seal.

[Bloop2]

The second top oil seal I got was from BocaBearings was .561"

That would be the same seal that I got, when I asked at Boca for the specs on it, they put me in touch with their supplier, Dichtomatik supplies Boca and hopefully you got the correct seal. I was able to get the Dichtomatik seal locally and it fits perfectly.

Dichtomatik seal
.312" x .562" x .125"
single lip + no spring + rubber or metal OD
availability unknown in US

I'm not sure why you want to go single lip, the originals are all double lip, there's a reason for that, double lips are tighter when installed. I have tried a few single lips and they all fell out. I wouldn't go metal on the OD either, you need the slightly over size rubber on the OD to make a nice press fit.
My Dichtomatik seal measures 14.2 MM OD.

[Suzsmokeyallan]

Can I suggest a board member in this thread making up an order for the correct parts and creating a kit with the seals and o-rings in it.
Possibly 20 kits for a first trial order and I'd be up for buying three kits.

[Bloop2]

I would be willing to do it, the problem right now is the 9.5x16x4 seal from MFG. I just received mine after almost an 8 week wait, I cleaned out their existing stock of 3, my order was for 10. They were unable to get any more from their supplier and asked me to cancel my back order and check back at a later date. As of last week , they have no idea when they will get more. When originally dealing with MGF, they gave me the contact info for Winderosa and it is there that I got the specs, under the impression that they made the seals. As I found out today when I finally got my order, the seal is made in Taiwan, Winderosa is only an importer and distributor.

[jabcb]

Bloop, thanks for the update.

I was hoping to get 5 of the 9.5x15x4 seals but I was only able to get 2 of them.
Lets hope they make more.

Looks like Boca was right about their seal being from Dichtomatick.
My Boca seal OD was .561", or .002" over 14.2mm.

I ordered the Harwal seal, .313" x .563" x .25".

[Bloop2]

So far I have done 2 pumps using the Dichtomatik seal, neither one of them was loose or started to turn in the sleeve, it was a nice tight fit. I'm going to measure the ID of the sleeve opening on a couple of other pumps. Stay tuned.

[CJF]

Well, thanks to you guys, looks like you cleaned out the last of the 9.5x16x4 seals in the entire world!! Actually, there may be a few others sitting on shelves. I got 3 from the A&J parts...my guess is they are also from Taiwan. I'll be canceling my MFG supply order now.

I'll try the inch measured seal as well if it is a proven winner. The thing is that it really needs to be a bit larger od than 14.2 to be a proper press in fit. That is what the metric seal is that I already have and it spins in the pump housing. It is actually more like 14.5 in actual diameter even though the seal says 14 for od. The original seal is closer to 14.10 based on my measurements. Is this what your old seal measures?

[Suzsmokeyallan]

This might mean a joint effort by some members to find the one elusive seal to make the kit.
If a seal is spinning or easily turning in the recess due to wear, clean the recess surface and the seals outer face and carefully apply a film around the outer face with some 5 minute epoxy resin and push it in. Once its set it wont move or leak, and if you need to remove it later on when the time arises it will still pry out easily.

[jabcb]

Work up early this morning. After reading the latest posts, I ordered 5 more 9.5x16x4 seals which cleaned out another supplier.

[jabcb]

Certainly not an expert on this topic.

But from what I've read about rubber covered seals:
recommended interference between seal OD & housing for small seals is .006" (.15mm)
minimum interference is .003"
max interference is .009"

If a seal is spinning or easily turning in the recess due to wear, clean the recess surface and the seals outer face and carefully apply a film around the outer face with some 5 minute epoxy resin and push it in.

In my case, the 8x14x4 seal falls out when you turn the spacer upside down.
Instead of an interference, it has a clearance of about .001"

So the question is what is better for my case:
1) use epoxy resin to glue in the seal that is 8mm x 14mm x 4mm & double-lip + spring + rubber OD
2) use correct interference fit with Harwal seal that is .313" x .563" x.25" & single lip + spring + rubber OD

The stock seal is double lip, but since the seal is completely enclosed this might not be that important.

[Bloop2]

Work up early this morning. After reading the latest posts, I ordered 5 more 9.5x16x4 seals which cleaned out another supplier.

Can you share your supplier for the 9.5x16x4? So far we have MFG Supply and A&J parts. Are we all starting to display symptoms of "hoarding". I know I can never have enough spare parts.

I measured the old 8x14x4 seals from the 3 pumps I have taken apart, all of them measure about 14.17, 14.18 OD mm

I also measured the ID of the sleeve, 13.95 mm if I really force my calipers. Almost impossible to get it to 14 mm.