T250 Exhaust 'modification'

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jsyx
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T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by jsyx »

In the midst of a deep clean/upkeep/tuneup on my 71 T250 Hustler..

Got most of the tail end and motor cleaned up and decided to attack my exhausts yesterday.
When i got the bike, i had a lot of problems with mixed gas getting all backed up in my pipes and occasionally leaking all over
the place when i was parked at the right angle.. At first my mechanic thought there was just an airleak somewhere, then after performing a compression test, ruled it a leaky inner crankcase seal. So it stayed in the shop all winter for an overhaul.

When i picked it up in the spring, it ran okay, but after a few weeks the problem came back.
This summer i managed to get the mixtures a little better, so that the right hand exhaust wasn't gooping up and the plug was still nice and toasty..
but the left hand side continued to goop up..
Which leads me to yesterday's discovery..
Image

after pulling the baffles, i realized there was what seemed to be an extra bit of tubing floating around in the very back section of the left side pipe..
I felt around in the right side, and it wasn't there, so i got a flashlight and had a look..
Turns out there was about 16 inches of some kind of cardboard or gasket material rolled up and jammed in the rear of the exhaust, wrapping up the baffle and effectively blocking all the holes, causing it to get all mucked up with over rich exhaust.
My theory is, that for whatever reason, the baffle must have been rattling around in there, so whatever backwoods hack owned the bike at the time decided to roll up a big piece of something that inevitably became totally soaked with mixed gas exhaust.
In addition, there were a couple of bolts on that funky left side near the center of the pipe.. i pulled the rear most out, which turned out to be a 2 1/2 wood screw!! I guess the wrap bodge wasn't enough to keep the baffle in place, so some knucklehead decided to just jam a screw in there to keep it shored up.. needless to say i also found a couple little holes in the baffle where the screw tip was able to hit.

So now, everything is probably tuned wrong with the exhaust being so restricted on one side, so it's back to the drawing board with syncing and setting the pilots.
In addition, i'm left with a couple of holes in the pipe, to be filled with either jb weld (yuck), or slightly larger (prob metric!) bolts jammed in to fill them up.

Given the options, would it be worth either? Obviously i'm on the search for a new pipe (or the slim possibility of finding expansion chambers in the US!) but in the meantime, is it worth trying to fill the hole without a torch? Unfortunately, im not much of a welder.

Would filling the hole with metal putty even work given the high temperature of the exhausts once they're warmed up?
Also, anyone had 'loose baffles?' Seems weird, when i pushed it back in without the goop and extra screw, it seemed to be in there fine, i even noticed i could prob bend the notched end out a little to get it nice and snug... but why the hell would anyone have defiled those beautiful pipes without a good reason!?!

Mostly anecdotal, but any suggestions/comments are welcome..
Madbuffalo
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by Madbuffalo »

You should have included a warning before showing that picture, I was eating lunch! :roll: Not to ask the obvious but are you sure that's not just baffle packing material coming out of the pipe? Most baffles come from the factory with a white wrapping to deaden sound. Over time it gets gummed up and you can replace or just remove it. The baffles should be held in by 1 screw on the very back of the pipe (located in that small hole in the outer pipe). Welding the other hole would be best but using a small screw would probably work too. JB weld is probably a bad idea for the reason you mentioned.
No really... it's supposed to smoke.

1974 Suzuki Nomad 340
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jsyx
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Suzuki 2-Strokes: 71 T250 Hustler, 72 Honda CL350, 03 Stella
Location: Minneapolis MN

Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by jsyx »

I bet that's probably what it was.. Although it must have been removed from the other side.. and wouldn't really explain the screws toward the center..
But good info to know, thanks!

Now the real question, why would one want to make a 2-stroke twin quieter!
Madbuffalo
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by Madbuffalo »

jsyx wrote:Now the real question, why would one want to make a 2-stroke twin quieter!
Haha, that's a good question. My opinion is 2-strokes should have chambers, just sounds better that way.
No really... it's supposed to smoke.

1974 Suzuki Nomad 340
1975 Suzuki GT750 Waterbuffalo
diamondj
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by diamondj »

I'm not clear on something - are there extra holes in the baffles? Or the actual muffler exterior?

Jim
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jsyx
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Suzuki 2-Strokes: 71 T250 Hustler, 72 Honda CL350, 03 Stella
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by jsyx »

ha. both! guess ill just try to find a nice fat bolt to jam in there and see where it takes me!
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tz375
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by tz375 »

I'm not clear. Did both muffler bodies contain a long baffle tube wrapped at least at the rear in wadding, or was the other pipe empty?

Each muffler should contain a baffle tube which as was mentioned earlier, is retained by a single bolt/cheese head screw as stock.

What was inside each of your pipes?
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jsyx
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by jsyx »

Left pipe had baffle, baffle packing in the rearmost part of the muffler, and 2 weird holes drilled through the outside (grr.) near the center, no idea why..
I just wasn't aware that they would usually have the baffle packing from the factory, and it looked like it had been in there since.
Right side baffle and pipe intact. No weird drilling, no packing, packing must have already been removed.

both were held by the small retaining screws on the back end of the baffle, left was also retained by 'custom wood screw' further up.

Looking forward to hearing them without all the gunk in there.
elbert
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by elbert »

Could be that the screw could have been an attempt by a PO to fix a loose baffle plate. I have a muffler where it has been done with a rivet. On the T250 there shouldn't be any packing in the muffler, suzuki didn't start with that until the GT series came as far as I know.
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jabcb
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by jabcb »

I think it probably should have packing on the baffle.

Had a '72 T250J back in the 70's & it had packing. (Got it used so PO could have added it.)
Have an owner's manual for a '72 T350J; the manual has a pic with baffle packing.
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elbert
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by elbert »

I stand corrected, the T250 had packing, the T350 didn´t.
Allthough the owners manual for the T350J shows a muffler with wrapping I believe they just reused a picture of a T250, or could it be a difference between different geographical markets?
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mike1161
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by mike1161 »

jsyx, are you still looking for a good set of pipes? I ask because I just bought a set that's in pretty good condition, and they are for a T250. Before buying, I asked the seller about all the measurements and compared photos to the ones I have (T350). Everything seemed to match up.... but I forgot to ask about the diameter of the tube where it mounts to the head and the threaded portion, dumb move. I just read somewhere else that they are different between the T250 and T350 - makes sense, since the 350 would have to move a bit more air. Anyway, if I find these really don't fit my T350 (which I would be bummed out about), I will be putting them up for sale. Let me know, or I will send you a PM.
Current bikes: 1970 Suzuki T350, 2012 Thruxton
Previous bikes: '71 Honda CL350, '82 Yamaha 550 Seca, '86 Yamaha RD350, '88 Suzuki RG500 Gamma, '86 Suzuki VS700, '75 Kawasaki Mach II (S3), '12 Triumph Bonneville T100, '08 Triumph Daytona 675 SE
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mike1161
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by mike1161 »

OK, just checked on this now, and they won't fit my T350. :( Here are the dimensions I measured, where the pipe mounts to the exhaust port:
T250 pipe diam: OD = 45mm, ID = 34mm
T350 pipe diam: OD = 47mm, ID = 38mm.
So, if you (or anyone) is interested, these are a great set of pipes, even the baffles are in great condition (I took them out to look). I will get some photos of them over the weekend.
Current bikes: 1970 Suzuki T350, 2012 Thruxton
Previous bikes: '71 Honda CL350, '82 Yamaha 550 Seca, '86 Yamaha RD350, '88 Suzuki RG500 Gamma, '86 Suzuki VS700, '75 Kawasaki Mach II (S3), '12 Triumph Bonneville T100, '08 Triumph Daytona 675 SE
alanr
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by alanr »

Send me some pics,I may be keen,thanks
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mike1161
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Re: T250 Exhaust 'modification'

Post by mike1161 »

OK, for anyone interested, here are some photos I took today of the T250 pipes. I was going to re-chrome them, since otherwise they are in great shape, very few dents or scratches. I pulled the baffles to look at them, and they are in really good condition, too. See below for photos... I would sell them for what I paid which was $130, plus shipping.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3311722/T250pipes1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3311722/T250pipes2.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3311722/T250pipes3.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3311722/T250pipes4.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3311722/T250pipes5.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3311722/T250pipes6.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3311722/T250pipes7.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3311722/T250pipes8.jpg
Current bikes: 1970 Suzuki T350, 2012 Thruxton
Previous bikes: '71 Honda CL350, '82 Yamaha 550 Seca, '86 Yamaha RD350, '88 Suzuki RG500 Gamma, '86 Suzuki VS700, '75 Kawasaki Mach II (S3), '12 Triumph Bonneville T100, '08 Triumph Daytona 675 SE
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