Leather versus Cordura

[johnakay]

copied this from another forum..so what do you guys think?


There was some discussion a while ago about this and I found this fairly old document in my files which was probably the one I was remembering when I said Leather is way more slide-along-the road resistant than fabrics. Modern fabrics are probably much better now but I will stick with leather.
Ted.

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My experience with:

Cordura, Nordura, Fabricoria, etc....

Some years ago, the AFM racing organization allowed the new, tough fabric based racing suits - in addition to traditional leather.

Advantages to woven fabric suits with plastic cups and plates installed for impact distribution?
They are much cooler and more flexible to use and wear, as compared to leather - and you can throw them in the washing machine to clean them.

And they should cost less, as the material requires much less skill to produce.

How do they work?

Gennady, my racing buddy, was one of the first to use a set.

Yep, he was cooler and lighter and more comfortable and I was hotter and sweatier in the 105f/40c weather during that blistering summer season.
When he pitched his Yamaha in front of me in turn 8 at Sears Point and slid into the tire wrapped Armco (I never wanted to do that, myself - I didn't and I won that one easily), he emerged almost unscathed, except where he managed to "punch" the steel Armco barrier between the tires with his fist and broke a couple of small, insignificant bones on the back of his hand. Lucky guy and a pretty good testimonial for the Cordura suit material.

BUT.
Next race? He slid off again (yep, I won that one, too!). BUT -
The tough fabric pretty much ground through and ripped apart in multiple places. Luckily, Gen managed to roll around and keep his unprotected parts mostly off the ground.
The suit looked really bad!
The AFM rescinded the rule allowing non leather racing suits.....

Conclusion:
The woven fabric suits are cooler, more flexible and potentially smell better and can be kept cleaner with less work, but if you fall at high speed, slide on and abrade the fabric significantly, If it were mine, I'd seriously look at replacing the jacket or replacing tha damaged areas on the suit or jacket. The second or third time you slide on the damaged area, it is more likely to grind through, losing garment integrity. Just so you know, I'd be happy to wear a new fabric suit or jacket, though.

Leather is heavier, hotter and less flexible - but more durable over the years and crashes.

Which did I feel better and more confident in?
Leather. Even when it's hot. There's a certain amount of comfort knowing that the leather wears through slowly and linearly and if a decent set of thicker leather, doesn't usually rip.
When I was racing, a guy named Bob Agness would hand select hides for suitability for different parts of the suit. He used thicker hide on the impact body points and thinner in the "protected" areas. The leather was good enough the protect me in innumerable, uncountable incursions into gravity pockets during my racing period - even without plastic inserts!

I had 2 sets of leathers.
A new, "European style", thinner set and the thicker "American style" thicker set. I used the thinner set, usually, because they looked better - but - when it got down getting into a race that I knew would be tough to win?
Into the gear bag and out came that set of scuffed up, thrashed, thick set of "American" leathers and my visually clashing, lucky blue Yamaha MX socks.

In hindsight, I suppose that, if I saw a guy that I raced with start preparing for a crash before the race even started, I would at lest mentally note that, too. Psyche! But, I felt better with what I knew would protect me better when I fell.
Max. protection, lucky socks, meditation, visualization.....

That didn't stop me from crashing, though.....

Points -

Clean leather smells good.
New Cordura and similar fabrics smell like that fabric store your mother used to drag you go into when you were a little kid.

Leather feels better than Cordura.
There's something about that that is innately human about that.
Witness "Wilson's House of Leather" stores in the US - the prototype "Bob's House of Cordura" floundered early in testing......

Leather is sexier, if you care. Proof?
Any guys ever say "Hey, check out that babe in the Cordura pants!"?
Any women here who are find that they are visually primarily drawn towards guys in Cordura suits?

We think we look better in leather.
Probably true. People do look better in tasteful leather.

Leather lasts a long time with a little, loving care.
A 20 year old set of leathers or leather jacket is entirely likely to hang around. An evening of nourishment with mink oil or similar will bring back the suppleness. Now if you still fit in them.

Leather seems to be an "alive" material with personality and end up developing a personality.
"I remember this scuff - Bolinas Ridge Road in 1985 on the RD. This part here was Mt. Tamalpais, Fairfax-Bolinas Road, 1990 on the 550 Seca"

Cordura
So, for long term, I like leather.
For day to day, back and forth to work? Cordura is great.
For blending into the general population, Cordura is better.

Marc


My experience with:

Cordura, Nordura, Fabricoria, etc....

Some years ago, the AFM racing organization allowed the new, tough fabric based racing suits - in addition to traditional leather.

Advantages to woven fabric suits with plastic cups and plates installed for impact distribution?
They are much cooler and more flexible to use and wear, as compared to leather - and you can throw them in the washing machine to clean them.

And they should cost less, as the material requires much less skill to produce.

How do they work?

Gennady, my racing buddy, was one of the first to use a set.

Yep, he was cooler and lighter and more comfortable and I was hotter and sweatier in the 105f/40c weather during that blistering summer season.
When he pitched his Yamaha in front of me in turn 8 at Sears Point and slid into the tire wrapped Armco (I never wanted to do that, myself - I didn't and I won that one easily), he emerged almost unscathed, except where he managed to "punch" the steel Armco barrier between the tires with his fist and broke a couple of small, insignificant bones on the back of his hand. Lucky guy and a pretty good testimonial for the Cordura suit material.

BUT.
Next race? He slid off again (yep, I won that one, too!). BUT -
The tough fabric pretty much ground through and ripped apart in multiple places. Luckily, Gen managed to roll around and keep his unprotected parts mostly off the ground.
The suit looked really bad!
The AFM rescinded the rule allowing non leather racing suits.....

Conclusion:
The woven fabric suits are cooler, more flexible and potentially smell better and can be kept cleaner with less work, but if you fall at high speed, slide on and abrade the fabric significantly, If it were mine, I'd seriously look at replacing the jacket or replacing tha damaged areas on the suit or jacket. The second or third time you slide on the damaged area, it is more likely to grind through, losing garment integrity. Just so you know, I'd be happy to wear a new fabric suit or jacket, though.

Leather is heavier, hotter and less flexible - but more durable over the years and crashes.

Which did I feel better and more confident in?
Leather. Even when it's hot. There's a certain amount of comfort knowing that the leather wears through slowly and linearly and if a decent set of thicker leather, doesn't usually rip.
When I was racing, a guy named Bob Agness would hand select hides for suitability for different parts of the suit. He used thicker hide on the impact body points and thinner in the "protected" areas. The leather was good enough the protect me in innumerable, uncountable incursions into gravity pockets during my racing period - even without plastic inserts!

I had 2 sets of leathers.
A new, "European style", thinner set and the thicker "American style" thicker set. I used the thinner set, usually, because they looked better - but - when it got down getting into a race that I knew would be tough to win?
Into the gear bag and out came that set of scuffed up, thrashed, thick set of "American" leathers and my visually clashing, lucky blue Yamaha MX socks.

In hindsight, I suppose that, if I saw a guy that I raced with start preparing for a crash before the race even started, I would at lest mentally note that, too. Psyche! But, I felt better with what I knew would protect me better when I fell.
Max. protection, lucky socks, meditation, visualization.....

That didn't stop me from crashing, though.....

Points -

Clean leather smells good.
New Cordura and similar fabrics smell like that fabric store your mother used to drag you go into when you were a little kid.

Leather feels better than Cordura.
There's something about that that is innately human about that.
Witness "Wilson's House of Leather" stores in the US - the prototype "Bob's House of Cordura" floundered early in testing......

Leather is sexier, if you care. Proof?
Any guys ever say "Hey, check out that babe in the Cordura pants!"?
Any women here who are find that they are visually primarily drawn towards guys in Cordura suits?

We think we look better in leather.
Probably true. People do look better in tasteful leather.

Leather lasts a long time with a little, loving care.
A 20 year old set of leathers or leather jacket is entirely likely to hang around. An evening of nourishment with mink oil or similar will bring back the suppleness. Now if you still fit in them.

Leather seems to be an "alive" material with personality and end up developing a personality.
"I remember this scuff - Bolinas Ridge Road in 1985 on the RD. This part here was Mt. Tamalpais, Fairfax-Bolinas Road, 1990 on the 550 Seca"

Cordura
So, for long term, I like leather.
For day to day, back and forth to work? Cordura is great.
For blending into the general population, Cordura is better.

Marc
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[tz375]

Nothing beats leather unless it's an Aerostich suit but they are a bit much for a short ride. On the track - leather. On the street leather jacket, Draggin jeans or sometimes a cordura jacket and Draggin jeans.

I used to wear leather pants and leather jacket but they shrank a couple of sizes - honest....

[Suzsmokeyallan]

I can see the virtues of leather in a lot of applications but I want to see the diehard leather aficionados wear a leather jacket and pants when its a little chilly, or you start out riding then go into the mountains and the temps drop to about +5c. The leather will become as stiff as a board in no time and you will be freezing yourself. What would be the choice of solving this problem, are you going to put on a lined fabric jacket and pants over them to stay warm?
Aerostitch is great stuff, Iron Butt Allen swears by them and he should know he racked up loads of miles on his.

[elbert]

I always thought that a Cordura suit/jacket had to be junked after a crash since it would loose it strength.
I use a leather jacket with a detachable liner inside, so it is quite versatile temperature wise, even last week when it was +3 celcius when i drove to work it was warm(ish) and didn't feel like card board at all, but I guess that would depend on the leather quality/thikness.

[Suzsmokeyallan]

even last week when it was +3 celcius when i drove to work it was warm(ish) and didn't feel like card board at all

You see, it depends on how far you are going as well in the cold, a couple miles to work and you may be ok, a few HUNDRED miles and you will be truly frozen.
Also how much lining is in the leather jacket and pants is another thing altogether, somehow in the thread it did not actually state what type, and how thick the lining was in the leathers they were talking about. The only mention was about 'European thin' and 'American thick' types.
Also I'd say good judgment is needed to determine just how much damage riding gear took during a crash, like a helmet, it should be replaced after so much use or an impact, unless you feel your body isn't worth it.