Dating certificate

[Vince]

Does anyone have any good tips to get a dating certificate for my 1968 Cobra, in the UK from the US last year? I called Suzuki and they are quoting £95 AND a 50 day turnaround

[locobuilderbri]

Try the vjmc Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Club.
Geoff the dating officer is very knowledgeable. Think it costs about £35.
Info is on the web site.
Regards Bri e

[Vince]

Cheers Bri. I've just emailed VJMC.

[jb56]

Contact Saddleworth Motorcycles at Saddleworth they are approved by the DVLA for doing this and they are considerably cheaper than the VJMC and can turn it round in just a few days

[locobuilderbri]

Contact the VJMC Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Club. The VJMC dating officer will be able to help. Geoff is a really nice guy & knows his motorcycles.You will of course have to join a great club & there may be a small charge. But it will be much much less than what you have been quoted! Follow the links on the web site for full details but from memory the requirements are photographs of both sides of the machine plus one of the VIN plate (Vehicle Identification Number) Headstock stamping & Engine Number. Also required are photo copys (dont send the originals) of any supporting paperwork. eg Import certificate, Duty payed etc etc.
Best Regards Bri e

[oldjapanesebikes]

Does anyone have any good tips to get a dating certificate for my 1968 Cobra, in the UK from the US last year? I called Suzuki and they are quoting £95 AND a 50 day turnaround

Two questions as I'm just curious - why is the dating important in the UK ? I see this sort of request often from UK based owners and don't understand the 'why' if you already have a good title ? Or do you not have a title - but then how was it imported to begin with ? The second question is about Suzuki - was this Suzuki UK or Suzuki in Japan that gave you the quote ? I ask as Suzuki Canada won't give you the time of day, never mind actually offering to do something useful.

Thx !

[Alan H]

I'm just going through this to register the 550K. You have to show that import duty and VAT is paid (then it can go on the NOVA - Notification Of Vehicles Arrival - system) then to register it you have to show frame and engine numbers and date of manufacture. I understand that Suzuki GB don't have records for the 60s and early 70s bikes (or perhaps can't be arsed - they could always look on Mraxls site!) so the VJMC and a couple of others are approved to supply the details. The VJMC ask for a couple of photos of the bike as well as the VIN plate and headstock stamp, plus the engine number stamping by photo or paper rubbing. Yes they charge but you don't have to join the VJMC if you don't want to. It's cheaper for the dating service if you do though!
LOOK HERE (clicky linky) for full details.

I spoke to a very helpful bloke at HMRC about NOVA and emailed him (ecsm.nchcars@hmrc.gsi.gov.uk) copies of the purchase document (from Freddiethefatfrog who is a vat registered trader) and the import document C&E389 with a covering letter explaining a bit about the bike.
They put the bike on NOVA and I got a nice letter from them a few days later all at no cost.
I am waiting for a registration pack from DVLA and then can get on with the next stage (another call to a helpful lady there).
Now I need a MOT (vehicle test) certificate, some insurance (on the frame number) and a dating cert from the VJMC and then I can register it.
Of course to get a test cert, it has to be finished and running so that's a few weeks away yet, but nearly there.

I understand the reason for all this is because some folks were fetching container loads of bikes over as 'spares' so didn't pay VAT, then sold the bikes (and cars) on for rebuilds.
So make sure you have proper documentation when you buy an import, or you'll get stung for VAT at best, or not be able to register the bike at worst as it may be a 'ringer' or illegal import.

You have been warned!!

[oldjapanesebikes]

I'm just going through this to register the 550K. You have to show that import duty and VAT is paid (then it can go on the NOVA - Notification Of Vehicles Arrival - system) then to register it you have to show frame and engine numbers and date of manufacture.

Thanks Alan - so for clarity, if I lived in the UK and was importing a bike I'd just bought which was a currently registered vintage vehicle with a good title in the name of the person I was buying it from - just as an example, from where I am in Alberta, Canada. A valid Alberta ownership/title has the frame number number (but no engine number), and the model year of the bike. Having that title in hand, together with a bill of sale showing what was paid and assuming all the UK import taxes/VAT etc have been paid, then you (and the reference web site link you provided) seem to indicate that I would still need a separate dating certificate ? I can understand if there is no proper paperwork and you are trying to establish the origin, and I understand that some jurisdictions may ask for an engine serial number, but it just seems odd to need something additional like a dating certificate that doesn't appear to serve any useful purpose if you already know what the model year is from the original registration.

Is this only actually important if you want an age related plate or exemption from the MOT requirements for machines 'on the edge' of eligibility, or possibly and for whatever reason it's just how its always been done in the UK ?

What am I missing ?

[locobuilderbri]

I'm just going through this to register the 550K. You have to show that import duty and VAT is paid (then it can go on the NOVA - Notification Of Vehicles Arrival - system) then to register it you have to show frame and engine numbers and date of manufacture.

Thanks Alan - so for clarity, if I lived in the UK and was importing a bike I'd just bought which was a currently registered vintage vehicle with a good title in the name of the person I was buying it from - just as an example, from where I am in Alberta, Canada. A valid Alberta ownership/title has the frame number number (but no engine number), and the model year of the bike. Having that title in hand, together with a bill of sale showing what was paid and assuming all the UK import taxes/VAT etc have been paid, then you (and the reference web site link you provided) seem to indicate that I would still need a separate dating certificate ? I can understand if there is no proper paperwork and you are trying to establish the origin, and I understand that some jurisdictions may ask for an engine serial number, but it just seems odd to need something additional like a dating certificate that doesn't appear to serve any useful purpose if you already know what the model year is from the original registration.

Is this only actually important if you want an age related plate or exemption from the MOT requirements for machines 'on the edge' of eligibility, or possibly and for whatever reason it's just how its always been done in the UK ?

What am I missing ?

In the example you quoted it would probably be straight forward to register the machine with DVLC & worth a try anyway as they could only reject it & insist on a dating certificate. Vehicles first registered before 1972 are considered historic vehicles & exempt from road fund duty & the DVLC are aware of the temptation to abuse the system.
As regards to the MOT test. Not 100 percent sure but some historic vehicles may be except from the MOT soon but a yearly examination would still be required & the easiest way to get that is probably still the good old MOT test.
Regards Bri e

[Alan H]

The age related thing also relates to the engine emission specifications as time moves on, so to try and register a 40+ year old two stroke on today's regulations just wouldn't happen.

[Pete O'Dell]

I'm just going through this to register the 550K. You have to show that import duty and VAT is paid (then it can go on the NOVA - Notification Of Vehicles Arrival - system) then to register it you have to show frame and engine numbers and date of manufacture.

Thanks Alan - so for clarity, if I lived in the UK and was importing a bike I'd just bought which was a currently registered vintage vehicle with a good title in the name of the person I was buying it from - just as an example, from where I am in Alberta, Canada. A valid Alberta ownership/title has the frame number number (but no engine number), and the model year of the bike. Having that title in hand, together with a bill of sale showing what was paid and assuming all the UK import taxes/VAT etc have been paid, then you (and the reference web site link you provided) seem to indicate that I would still need a separate dating certificate ? I can understand if there is no proper paperwork and you are trying to establish the origin, and I understand that some jurisdictions may ask for an engine serial number, but it just seems odd to need something additional like a dating certificate that doesn't appear to serve any useful purpose if you already know what the model year is from the original registration.

Is this only actually important if you want an age related plate or exemption from the MOT requirements for machines 'on the edge' of eligibility, or possibly and for whatever reason it's just how its always been done in the UK ?

What am I missing ?

In the example you quoted it would probably be straight forward to register the machine with DVLC & worth a try anyway as they could only reject it & insist on a dating certificate. Vehicles first registered before 1972 are considered historic vehicles & exempt from road fund duty & the DVLC are aware of the temptation to abuse the system.
As regards to the MOT test. Not 100 percent sure but some historic vehicles may be except from the MOT soon but a yearly examination would still be required & the easiest way to get that is probably still the good old MOT test.
Regards Bri e

Pre 1960 bikes no longer need a mot test, but you would still need one to newly register a import, I still get guys bringing pre 60 for a ticket just to have a second set of eyes on their pride and joy

[Alan H]

Pre 1960 bikes no longer need a mot test, but you would still need one to newly register a import, I still get guys bringing pre 60 for a ticket just to have a second set of eyes on their pride and joy[/quote]

Sensible idea really. It's our lives on there and we don't know everything, despite what we tell the newbies! The proper mechanics should be able to advise and guide. (And take the pi$$ when necessary, of course....)