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 Post subject: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:45 am 
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Around the block

Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:05 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Gloucester UK
Country: UK
Bikes owned: T500 M. Honda CB750K6,CB500T76, Yamaha Vmax
Hi during the maiden ride of my T500M all lights work horn brake lights and indicators but when the revs are above 2K the indicators don't work,,,,, unless I have the headlight on

could this be a earth problem?

Billy

_________________
Suzuki T500 1975
Suzuki GT750 1974
CB 250G5 1975
CB 500T 1976
CB750 K6 1976
Kawasaki S3 1974
C90 1972
Triumph Tina 1964


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:25 am 
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Novice racer
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 946
Location: North of Albany, NY
Country: USA
Bikes owned: T500R (now), T500M (40 yrs ago)
Could be a ground. More likely a weak battery, or perhaps a bad connection/wiring issue.

The T500 switches in more alternator coils with the headlight switch. So although you are using more total power with the headlight on, the alternator is generating more power when the headlight is on. Perhaps just enough more to make your indicators happy.


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:59 am 
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Around the block

Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:05 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Gloucester UK
Country: UK
Bikes owned: T500 M. Honda CB750K6,CB500T76, Yamaha Vmax
thanks ConnerVT
is there a way to make them work with the lights off?

Billy

_________________
Suzuki T500 1975
Suzuki GT750 1974
CB 250G5 1975
CB 500T 1976
CB750 K6 1976
Kawasaki S3 1974
C90 1972
Triumph Tina 1964


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:22 am
Posts: 227
Country: United Kingdom
Bikes owned: T500_MKIII
When you say don't work - no light or no flash I.e steady light on all the time?


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:44 pm 
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Around the block

Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:05 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Gloucester UK
Country: UK
Bikes owned: T500 M. Honda CB750K6,CB500T76, Yamaha Vmax
when the rev s go above 2000 they stop flashing no light at all not even the idiot light on the tacho
but if I put the lights on it works great. just dont fancy headlight on just to make indis work
Billy

_________________
Suzuki T500 1975
Suzuki GT750 1974
CB 250G5 1975
CB 500T 1976
CB750 K6 1976
Kawasaki S3 1974
C90 1972
Triumph Tina 1964


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:22 am
Posts: 227
Country: United Kingdom
Bikes owned: T500_MKIII
Perhaps put a voltmeter across the battery terminals and see what's going on with voltage as revs rise. Indicator relay are thermal devices as putting more load on the electrics makes it work maybe too much voltage is making the relay stop.
Are you running original rectifier; regulator?

AK


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:18 pm 
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Around the block

Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:05 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Gloucester UK
Country: UK
Bikes owned: T500 M. Honda CB750K6,CB500T76, Yamaha Vmax
no I searched on here for a all in one replacement. I will check with the Multimeter tomorrow what the reading is at tick over and at 2000

Image

this is the unit that was recomended, I can't for the life of me find the posts.

_________________
Suzuki T500 1975
Suzuki GT750 1974
CB 250G5 1975
CB 500T 1976
CB750 K6 1976
Kawasaki S3 1974
C90 1972
Triumph Tina 1964


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:41 pm 
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Moto GP
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 6075
Location: Illinois
There are a few combo units around and some are rated as very low wattage - like 50W or so for pit bikes. It is possible that your unit allows voltage to peak too high because it may not be able to dump all the surplus as heat.


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:41 am 
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Around the block

Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:05 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Gloucester UK
Country: UK
Bikes owned: T500 M. Honda CB750K6,CB500T76, Yamaha Vmax
Ok so,
the unit did come with some bike recommendations and one was a Suzuki GS750 it does get warm but only slightly.

some test figs

batt reading at rest no ign 12.71
with ign on no engine running 11.59
at tick over 13.85
engine at 4000 revs 15.04
tick over with main beam on 13.09
and with the lights on main and revs rising to 4000 (watch vid) the volts drop to 8 or 9 then steadily rise to 12.84 is this due to the coils drawing current ?

https://youtu.be/w83KmCLhsGM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

strange.

i have run this for 250 miles with the lights on all works fine no flat batt no blown bulbs. starts first kick

Billy

_________________
Suzuki T500 1975
Suzuki GT750 1974
CB 250G5 1975
CB 500T 1976
CB750 K6 1976
Kawasaki S3 1974
C90 1972
Triumph Tina 1964


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:10 pm 
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To the on ramp

Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:22 am
Posts: 227
Country: United Kingdom
Bikes owned: T500_MKIII
Never ideal diagnosing from afar but something seem wrong. reg/rec should hold output voltage to 14.2 to 14.8, given under light load not running your meter reads within 0.1v of 12v so using this to vaslidaste calibration is ok over 15v at 4k is a little bit high. Also voltage drop with the lights on seem a lot if you battery is good.

Double check wiring of the reg/rec as this is the thing that is different.


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:32 pm 
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Moto GP
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Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:32 pm
Posts: 3465
Location: southwestern Pennsylvania
Country: USA
Bikes owned: 69 T350 thru 75 GT750
The T500 & GS750 alternators are very different even though both have permanent magnet rotors.
The GS750 has a three-phase alternator with three stator output wires.
The T500 has a single-phase alternator with three stator output wires, with the extra wire being for the lighting coil.

Using a GS750 three-phase rectifier on a T500 is perfectly fine.

The problem is with the voltage regulator portion of your rectifier/regulator.
There are several different designs of voltage regulators for three-phase alternators.
The results you get depend on which design the manufacturer used.

Its not surprising that you got screwy results, although I would not have guessed you would get the results you have.

To avoid future problems, your best bet would be to get a modern rectifier/regulator designed for a single-phase permanent-magnet alternator.
If you were in the US, I would recommend a Tympanium.
A 12V single-phase rectifier/regulator that is for a vintage Triumph will be fine as long as it supports negative ground.

_________________
BAS (Bike Acquisition Syndrome) - too many bikes but have room for more

Suzuki:
GT750 2x75
GT550 72 project & 75
GT380 72
T500 73 project
T350 69, 71 & 72 project
T250 72
Honda 85 CB650SC & 86 CB700SC
09 Triumph Bonneville SE


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:59 am 
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To the on ramp

Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:22 am
Posts: 227
Country: United Kingdom
Bikes owned: T500_MKIII
If your reg/rec is a standard 3 phase shunt type on a standard wiring loom you should have 2 x R/G wires connected to one of the yellow wires on the reg/rec; 1 x Y/G wire to another yellow wire; the final yellow wire on the reg/reg should be not connected. If its single phase type same will apply you just won't have an extra yellow wire left over.

I used this one on mine which is 150W single phase, I have all the alternator coils wired to it so don't switch in the 3rd pair when the headlamp is on
http://www.feked.com/12v-regulator-rectifier-single-phase-solid-state.html

I get a steady 14.2v when running across the rev range.


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:39 am 
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Around the block

Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:05 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Gloucester UK
Country: UK
Bikes owned: T500 M. Honda CB750K6,CB500T76, Yamaha Vmax
thanks akendall1966
that's the one I have. Does it matter which yellow is connected to the R/G and the Y/G?

do you have a diagram I could copy please?
Billy

_________________
Suzuki T500 1975
Suzuki GT750 1974
CB 250G5 1975
CB 500T 1976
CB750 K6 1976
Kawasaki S3 1974
C90 1972
Triumph Tina 1964


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:22 am
Posts: 227
Country: United Kingdom
Bikes owned: T500_MKIII
There is a diagram here http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/files/T500.jpg

It should not matter which way round the yellow wires are connected. I rewired mine and differently to OEM so don't have standard loom to refer too but the Red/Green wire should split into 2 somewhere, one R/G should trace back directly to the alternator, the other R/G will trace back too the ignition switch and then continue from the switch back to the alternator. The Yellow/Green directly traces back to the alternator.

Assuming your wiring looks correct, I would at the connector for the alternator use your multi-meter to check the resistance of the coils between each R/G wire and the Y/G. There should not be a big difference between the 2 readings. Then check each wires resistance to the engine casing, the reading should be very high to infinity as the coils should not have any electrical path to the case. This will health check the alternator windings.

If the above looks OK, I would suspect a duff rec/reg unit and look to get it tested.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: indies above 2K
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:52 am 
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Around the block

Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:05 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Gloucester UK
Country: UK
Bikes owned: T500 M. Honda CB750K6,CB500T76, Yamaha Vmax
checked the R/G wire and the Y/G and one was .001 and the other was .005

is there any way I can check the reg/rectifier unit with limited multimeter experience?
also what is the worst thing that can happen, blown bulbs or perhaps damage to the battery?
Billy

_________________
Suzuki T500 1975
Suzuki GT750 1974
CB 250G5 1975
CB 500T 1976
CB750 K6 1976
Kawasaki S3 1974
C90 1972
Triumph Tina 1964


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