Seeley (replica) Framed Project Road Racer

[johnu]

Geoff, yes I did see that info on there actually After removing my cylinders today it looks like plenty of oil going to the right side but no sign of any on the left although the lines to both sides are full of oil. Is it possible to spin the oil pump with out turning the engine over? If so I would be able to see if it is coming out through both sides.

Biggest problem I have with taking those plates off the crank and replacing with shims is I am having to send the crank away for rebuilding so I can't be there to show them exactly what to do.

Hope I'm not hijacking your thread too much - sorry

Cheers,

John.

[GT-Karl]

Hi Zunspec,

what nr. is your frame, the thread is very intersting to me cause i'm looking forward to do something very similar! Got my frame in Peterborough too, three years ago!

Have got a lot of parts including the engine from the Seeley TR 500 of the former german Suzuki dealer and race Sponsor Böhme. Sadly not the genuine frame, but Pete's frame is the best solution i could find!

That's the target, but still a long lasting Job:

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[Zunspec4]

Hello Karl,

I also sourced my replica frame from Pete Odell (board member but no longer posts) although the frame was actually constructed by a chap called Andy. They are both based in Peterborough. The chassis number stamped on my headstock is "S&P T500.CSR.003. which indicates mine is one of the early frames produced by Andy/Pete. In fact my frame was originally bought by another guy but he had a change of plans and I ended up with the frame (as well as a set of billet yolks, genuine Seeley tank and rear shocks).

I would love to examine and do a bit of port measuring etc. on your engine to see how it compares to mine. Here is a link to my flickr.com album page which has photos of the build from bare frame up: https://flic.kr/s/aHsjCh8pt9

If there is anything I can help with just drop me a line.

Cheers Geoff

[GT-Karl]

My frame has nr.005, so not far from yours!

I got the genuine XR05 barrels and sandcasted "central plug" heads with the engine. The barrels are in usable condition but i never will use it, much to extremly tuned for using on that "Micky Mouse" tracks i use to ride today. Nearly unrideable in combination with the TR500 CR gearbox.

The barrels have exactly the porting shown on this TR500 specification:

[Zunspec4]

Hello Karl,

Wow, you have some nice "works" parts to play with . The porting specifications you show (sure I've seen the bullitin before) are quite hot though with exhaust port raised by 6mm (and the other dimensions). The porting on my "banker" engine is pretty much standard, although very nicely gas flowed and blended. The Ex, port has only been raised by 1mm which with the centre plug heads/pipes/carbs (34mm) it was giving out 52.4 bhp/ and 42 lbs/ft torque @ 7500 rpm at the rear wheel.


We could not dial out that dip in the torque curve. The pipes have been designed around the 2nd race engine which will have a far more race oriented tune and 38mm carbs and we suspect this is the reason. Still well good enough for Gary May to record race wins in the CRMC 500 Air Cooled class (he is a very fast rider though, has been a wild card in the old 250cc GP at a couple of Brit GPs).

Good luck with your build, I'll be following with interest.

Cheers Geoff

[Suspensionking]

Hello Karl,

I am based in Switzerland but have my engine and the bike build in Belgium. Like Geoff it has very mild porting and I run 36mm carbs, the heads I was told came form Eddie Crooks they have central plugs and otherwise I am not sure what is different.My Gearbox is a 5 speed CR form Nova and while the 1st gear is a little long it works ok even on the smaller spanish tracks, I finished 4th last weekend at Calafat so ended up 3rd in their championship. One think I have noticed with mine is that it seems to hit a wall at 8200rpm and will not rev more.

Will be interested to read how yours runs when you have it done.

Eamonn

[Suspensionking]

Hello Geoff,

I am following your race bike build looks great. Interesting I fitted a new Lockheed front calliper on my Tr500 for the last race in Spain which was 8 days ago. I only run a single disc and it seems on most circuits to be enough but I have found times when a bit more stopping power would help. I got a chance to check the weight of my bike after the race and with 5 litres of fuel came in at 143kilo. on your rear hub does that have a cush drive? I run without a cush drive as my TZ`s did not have one back in the day but on the T500 sometimes the sprocket carrier comes lose. I just keep checking and use loctite.

There is a guy in Belgium that will hydro-form exhausts if you have measurement.

Eamonn

[Zunspec4]

Well done on the results Eamonn

I think the 8200rpm wall you are hitting has to do with the state of the porting and pipes. My "banker" engine as you can see tops out just before 8000 rpm but as I said is "VERY" mildy ported wrt to Ex, port height (no widening), all other ports are std. Talking to Pete Odell he considers raising the Ex. port by 3mm (with subsequent widening + inlets ports worked on too) will give you a damn fast, but reliable, race engine. To add another reference point, my original Seeley T500 back in 1980, would rev effectively to 9800 (ish), but with attendant more frequent piston and ring changes. Unfortunately I never made a port map of the barrels so I can't tell exactly how much it had been tuned.

Just caught your last post

Gary May and Mike Hawthorne who have both taken my bike out on track report the single Lockheed powered front disc is more than adequate. My Seeley weighs in at 121Kg so that probably makes a difference, most T500 race bikes I have seen run dual f/discs.

The rear hub I am using was made and supplied by Minnovation Racing and is basically the Triumph T140 type design but in two pieces vice three. It does not have a cush drive but can be supplied with one, I reley on the Suzuki cush drive within the clutch basket. No issues that I have detected yet.

My pipes were made by Tony Green, a very well respected race pipe manufacturer in UK, and only 20 miles from me. I measured up the pipes he produced for someone else, see below.


It seems T500 pipes are long and thin vice the more chubby types you see today.

Cheers Geoff

[Zunspec4]

The Minnovation rear hub, as supplied:

[Suspensionking]

Thanks Geoff

Some very interesting info. Well I guess we will try some more development over the winter sand I will look out for a pair of cylinders to play with. My bike will be on the Fox Shox Stand a the Moto Legende Paris show 18,19 & 20th November if your in that next of the woods, it seems to be quite a big show so I hoe to find some bits and pieces there.

I will work out one day how to post some photo`s.

cheers

Eamonn

[Zunspec4]

Thanks Geoff

Some very interesting info. Well I guess we will try some more development over the winter sand I will look out for a pair of cylinders to play with. My bike will be on the Fox Shox Stand a the Moto Legende Paris show 18,19 & 20th November if your in that next of the woods, it seems to be quite a big show so I hoe to find some bits and pieces there.

I will work out one day how to post some photo`s.

cheers

Eamonn

Hi Eamonn,

The site does not have anymore storage for photos to be attached to you post. Most have their photos hosted on an image storage site such as Photobucket or Flickr. You copy the image location on your hosting site and insert it betweem the [img]Image%20link%20here[/img] when you click on "insert image".

I would love to go over to the Moto Legende Paris show but having two dogs to look after makes any travel awkward, unless planned well in advance. You just can't get the dog sitters these days

[GT-Karl]

From my experience with the 750 i'm sure that i never will use the factory barrels, except i would be invited to Daytona one day !

From the bigger bikes i know that a long first gear is no problem if you have enough torque at low revs.

The barrels i have prepared to use on my Seeley project are also just mild tuned. Will tell you the dimensions, the pipes are still not made, have to calculate them, one of the lot of jobs still to do.

The former german 250ccm Champion Lothar John told me about his time with the aircooled TR500 in 1973 and about the fact that his dutch and british concurrents didn't use the factory barrels too! He said: "I was very astonished that there were much smaller ports in their barrels than in mine, when i was able to take a close look for the first time!"

Karl

[Zunspec4]

Hi Karl,

I have seen the proper XR05 barrels, quite rare. I was also told at the same time that you could just as good, if not better, performance, from a well ported set of Std. barrels. However the more you port them for peak bhp the narrower the power band gets etc. the maintence goes up and so does the cost. I am of the opinion that you should be able to produce a reliable 65 bhp at the rear wheel and be reliable. I believe the final works racers (w/c) were getting up to 80 bhp, but then they had the necessary mountain of spares to keep them that way.

Would love to see how your engine performs when you get it running.

Cheers Geoff

[Suspensionking]

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[Suspensionking]