T500 Clutch problem

[sbaugz]

So I am nearly done with my build (or at least I thought), and I ran into a problem. Followed the procedure to adjust clutch cable per the manual. Despite what I do, the clutch doesn't seem to work. With the bike in gear and the clutch lever depressed, the bike will not free wheel. The rear wheel is basically locked with or without clutch lever engaged. If I put it in neutral, then it will free wheel.

Where do I go from here? I had the complete lower crankcase apart during the rebuild and I also swapped out clutch baskets because mine had a broken tine on it. I am pretty sure I re-assembled everything correctly, but now I am obviously questioning that. At the very least, I suppose I have to drain crankcase oil and remove clutch cover to inspect right? Any thoughts?

[Jimroid]

Lay it completely over on the left side, resting it on old towels/blankets. Don't drain the oil, remove rightside footpeg bracket, remove cottered pin to brake lever cable. Remove cover to inspect. Pull clutch lever in and observe what is /is not happening. About 35 minutes to get to that point.

[sbaugz]

never thought of that, although I might just drain oil instead of risking damaging my shiny new chambers.

[titan performance]

Are the plates stuck together? When was it all apart last?

[sbaugz]

Are the plates stuck together? When was it all apart last?

I took it all apart last night. Seemed like the plates didn't want to separate when clutch lever was depressed prior to me disassembling everything.

I re assembled using some spare, used clutch plates that I had here, and it seems to work better- although there is a lot of friction yet between the plates. The clutch lever is easier to depress now. I put the bike in gear, depressed the clutch lever and tried to roll the bike. It initially doesn't want to roll, but then start to roll with significant pushing of the bike. Seems like it shouldn't be this difficult to push the bike with it in gear and the lever depressed.

One thing that may be contributing- my clutch basket was very corroded when I rebuilt the engine last fall. (it looked like someone had found it in the bottom of the ocean after years). I sand blasted the clutch basket to get all the caked on corrosion off, but the clutch basket fingers still are somewhat rough with corrosion. I wonder if the plates are sticking to the fingers? Not sure this is the case though because when I depress cutch lever, I can see them all separate. Maybe I just need new clutch plates? Any thoughts on this?

As a backup plan, I emailed nova racing about one of their clutch baskets. They have them in stock, but boy are they expensive

[tz375]

It's hard to tell without seeing the parts, but it sounds like the drum or hub are not allowing the plates to move freely. The other possibility is that the plates are sticking to each other and that sometimes happens if the oil is incredibly thick or if the plates had previously been run in castor based oil.

[sbaugz]

I wonder if the plates are sticking to each other. To my knowledge, they are probably the original ones. My dilemma, is do I spent $50 on new friction plates from cruzinimage (the 18 tooth plates) and hope they work? Or do I bite the bullet and buy the Nova racing clutch basket and use the new Honda friction plates that go with that? Obviously the second option is way more expensive. I wouldn't even consider the second option except for the fact that my 18 tooth basket is pretty pitted from the corrosion that I sand blasted off.

[tricky1962]

What happens if you pull the clutch in and kick it over?

I have 80W90 oil in my gearbox and first thing, kicking it over like that will turn it enough to start the engine. If it doesn't fire first kick though (if it's been standing for weeks for example) second or third kick will have freed the clutch enough such that the engine doesn't turn over, so I have to release the clutch lever and kick to start the bike.

How does that work for you?

[Zunspec4]

You don't need an 80/90 SAE oil in the gear box IMHO and this is probably causing you clutch plates to stick excessively. Suzuki originally specified a regular 20/50 SAE oil, which of course is only 20 SAE at pre-running temperatures.

I am using Putoline GP10 g/box oil in the race engines to good effect which although labelled as 75W SAE seems quit "runny" if you see what I mean.

Cheers Geoff

[sbaugz]

What happens if you pull the clutch in and kick it over?

I have 80W90 oil in my gearbox and first thing, kicking it over like that will turn it enough to start the engine. If it doesn't fire first kick though (if it's been standing for weeks for example) second or third kick will have freed the clutch enough such that the engine doesn't turn over, so I have to release the clutch lever and kick to start the bike.

How does that work for you?

So I am assuming you suggest kicking engine over with it in first gear and clutch lever engaged? I will try that tonight.

As far as engine oil, I cannot comment on what was inside there prior to me purchasing it last fall. It had been sitting outside for a couple decades, so who knows. I put some cheap motor oil inside there myself. can't recall brand or weight off the top of my head.

[sbaugz]

You don't need an 80/90 SAE oil in the gear box IMHO and this is probably causing you clutch plates to stick excessively. Suzuki originally specified a regular 20/50 SAE oil, which of course is only 20 SAE at pre-running temperatures.

I am using Putoline GP10 g/box oil in the race engines to good effect which although labelled as 75W SAE seems quit "runny" if you see what I mean.

Cheers Geoff

Guess maybe I will do a little research on the forum and will try a different oil. I think I was using standard 10W-40 cheap motor oil. Not sure if that would make a difference or not.

[Jimroid]

Might not hurt to remove plates and clean with brake cleaner. Maybe refill with Belray 80# GEARSAVER lube. Btw this stuff is runny like automatic trans fluid or 10w , not thick and sticky like hypoid gearlube. And while the plates are out make sure hubs are not severally notched.

[tz375]

Many of the guys on here will tell you that they use regular auto oil with no problems as long as you stay away from friction modifiers. I prefer to use two stroke gearbox oil which is rated 75/80 or whatever but is equivalent viscosity to a 10 or 20wt engine oil.

I usually get mine from Neilsen over in Lake Villa - it's a Honda brand oil for CR two strokes and works like a charm. They have others. Any decent dealer can supply that. As Jimroid suggested, it might be a good idea to clean the plates before refitting them, but check the hub first.

For a race bike the Nova solution is the way to go for sure, but for a street bike, I would hope that there are parts out there you can grab for a whole lot less cash.

[Zunspec4]

I am using the NOVA clutch basket in both race engines. The first one fitted worked very well so another was bought for the 2nd engine. Both also use the NOVA straight cut primaries. They use 8 Honda friction plates (CR450 type) and a combination of T500 (5 off) and DR350 (3 off) steel plates. This combination has so far exhibited no clutch slip, and lower drag.

Bear in mind you will have to de-rivet your primary gear and then re-rivet it to the NOVA basket, not a massively hard task though.

Cheers Geoff

[tricky1962]

zunspec - I am well aware of that. I use that oil because I get it free

sbaugz - no I'm suggesting you leave it in neutral and kick it over. With mine this frees up the plates. If it's in gear and the plates stick it will jump forwards unless you have it on a centre stand with the rear wheel in the air

I think it's worth assessing whether the OP has a malfunctioning clutch or merely sticking plates before going through that old old theme of what oil viscosity is best eh?