Thoughts on Powerdynamo for T500

[smokin_blue]

I am thinking about ordering a powerdynamo system for my '72 T500 directly from the guys in Germany.

I have read all the posts on this site that I could find with the search that had to do with Powerdynamo's and electronic ignitions for the T500.

Seems to me that this is a pretty decent set up. As I see it the top two benefits are
1. electronic ignition
2. electronic advance curve (understood not to be programmable) - but does away with mechanical advance
Then the added benefits
3. more electrical power on a weak stock system with new lighting coils
4. no relying on battery (for anything)
5. new coils and wires as part of the deal

There seem to be less systems/choices available for the T500 than there were 5+ years ago.

So, all that said. Does anyone have any comments that I should be considering either negatives of the Powerdynamo or big plusses of a different option.

thanks!

[Knut]

I have one still in the box for my Kaw H1 which should have been on the bike by now but this years season was concentrated on riding my new GT550 so the H1 was more or less abandoned. However, what I heard from the supplier was that it can eat plugs as there is no resistance in the plug caps or coils that follow the kit. This seems to be individual between bikes, but if it turns out to be a problem one should fit plug caps with 3-5 ohm resistance.

A big plus with the Powerdynamo kit, apart from the benefit of an electronic ignition in general, is that all the electrical parts are replaced with new and that spares and components are available should one part fail, and you get a warranty.

[jabcb]

I have one still in the box for my Kaw H1 which should have been on the bike by now but this years season was concentrated on riding my new GT550 so the H1 was more or less abandoned. However, what I heard from the supplier was that it can eat plugs as there is no resistance in the plug caps or coils that follow the kit. This seems to be individual between bikes, but if it turns out to be a problem one should fit plug caps with 3-5 ohm resistance.

A big plus with the Powerdynamo kit, apart from the benefit of an electronic ignition in general, is that all the electrical parts are replaced with new and that spares and components are available should one part fail, and you get a warranty.

That's easily solved by using resistor plugs.

[ConnerVT]

2. electronic advance curve (understood not to be programmable) - but does away with mechanical advance

The T500 has a mechanical ignition advance?

[smokin_blue]

2. electronic advance curve (understood not to be programmable) - but does away with mechanical advance

The T500 has a mechanical ignition advance?

You are right! I had heard somewhere they ran mechanical advances like the GS's did but now that I take a closer look they don't even have that! It is fixed timing. So correction........not only do you get an advance but you get an advance curve!!! Bigger bonus yet!

[tz375]

Are you sure that the T500 system has an advance curve? I couldn't find a reference to that on their site. It's an analog system and the only timing they usually have is latency ie it takes a certain amount of time for electrons to get to where they are going and as engine speed increases, they get there later.

[smokin_blue]

Are you sure that the T500 system has an advance curve? I couldn't find a reference to that on their site. It's an analog system and the only timing they usually have is latency ie it takes a certain amount of time for electrons to get to where they are going and as engine speed increases, they get there later.

Not fully 100% sure but I was going by what Zunspec4 said in his Seeley build thread here.....
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6992&p=132768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I realize he is probably not running the lighting coil kit but I would hope it is safe to assume the ignition portion is the same between the two kits.

I have below tried to quote it out to see if it pulls the graphics and all.

Hi Guys,

I believe we are thinking along the same lines Ref. the transition to a closed throttle with the engine still spinning at high revs. However you view it the engine suddenly has a loss of mixture (containing all that precious lubrication).

Dyno operators - They have me a bit tied up I must admit . I have spoken to one who went into "3D mapping" and altering stuff to get the best power. I'm thinking "unless you intend to get the porting equipment out and re-design and weld up new pipes we aren't going far mate" . With the porting/pipes as they stand all that can be done is ignition point and jetting. Another chap spoke of being able to get a rough idea of where the jetting was by analysing the exhaust gas as the engine was revved up under no load, how the heck that checks out confuses the heck out of me as by the time you get to full throttle the pistons and rods would be on the outside .

I have initially set the timing at 2.9mm BTDC, Mr Les Trotter (the alleged original engine builder) spoke to me of arriving at 3.1 - 3.2 mm BTDC after running it at a conservative setting to begin with. I then have supplementary advice from two others that if the dyno man does not monitor the running temperature he doesn't properly understand 2-st dyno-ing. The Powerdynamo advance curve is below, as you can see it is fairly simple. Taking the 0 degree line as your static setting (2.9mm BTDC) it has an advance that reduces to 0 again at 10,000 rpm (the absolute limit for a T500).



As you can see there is not a lot to play with (what the heck is a 3D map anyway). I believe that Powerdynamo can change this curve but it is factory job, no plugging in a Laptop here. If I can arrange it I will visit Tim Blakemore racing on Wednesday for a simple dyno run. (http://www.timblakemoreracing.co.uk/bri ... ntact.html.

Cheers Geoff

[smokin_blue]

Ok so I sent a note to Powerdynamo today and here is the response I got.

paul,

this system does not have a special advance unit as such.
it can be added, info see
http://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/info/advance.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
http://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/info/curves.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

in our experience for this bike not needed (and also you would have to
tell us what characteristics to implement)

there is however some advance characteristics by virtue of its design to
enable better starting
http://www.powerdynamo.biz/data/ignipoi ... e_112i.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the zero line is the basic setting you do as per assy instructions


edgar

[smokin_blue]

So here is a update for anyone considering buying in the USA. I checked with two distributors located in the US and they of course don't stock them but could get them in. Prices were $507.50 plus $14.50 shipping and the other was $573 plus shipping. Ouch!

So I checked out there own site at http://www.powerdynamo.biz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and sent a couple of emails. As you can see from the responses I posted above they are very prompt and detailed in responses to inquiries. Their online store has a 5% discount and the exchange rate from USD to Euro is very good right now.

the online price for the US is 254 Euro plus 40 Euro shipping or a total of 295 Euro. Converted during payment that came to $378 delivered to my door. Note there is a risk of some import duties as stated on their website. So I placed the order last Saturday. On Sunday I got a personal response to my order (I had a specific question that they answered - I was floored....response on a Sunday!!) It shipped on Monday and I had it in my hands that Thursday!! not a week later but 4 days later! No Import duties needed! Santa came early this year!



So $378 to my doorstep from Germany and that is with the full lighting kit! $130-$180 savings buying direct. Based on that it isn't as expensive a kit as it used to seem considering you get all new electricals on the ignition and lighting side.

Now I just need to get it installed.

[Alan H]

Remember that any electrical system will have to be voltage stabilised so as not to blow bulbs/horns etc. Using the brake (light) for example - if you dab the brake a couple of times - will cause voltage fluctuations that can blow bulbs.
That's what the battery did - regulate the voltage.
I know that any smart electronic system can alleviate this, but only be either 'wasting' the excess power to earth - which wastes fuel/power and heats components needlessly, or by using an excited rotor system like the 750/550/380 etc., but this needs a small voltage (battery) to give the original power to the rotor so that it can generate power, then to be regulated
Yes, you can get away with a smaller battery as the 500 hasn't got electric start, but it seems a helluva lot of work and cash for little value.

Regarding the programmable ignition - as the 500 only revs to about 7/7500 anyway, an advance curve would be of little use. AFAIK, Suzuki didn't have one on the TR750/TR500 etc. unless someone knows different. Perhaps the RG500 did as it revs higher? Dunno, never worked on one.
Resistor plugs and caps are to help alleviate RFI (Radio Frequency Interference), if you need more resistance in the circuit, open up the gap on the plug points. Doesn't make much difference with 50000 volts though and you'll still get RFI, which will pi$$ anyone off with a TV or radio near to the bike when the engine is running. I tried with an amplified ignition on a V8 many years ago and neighbours over 25 metres away complained.

That's my two penn'orth anyway, I think it's a bit OTT for an old bike that makes about 50HP and runs OK and mostly reliably at 40+ years old.
It's your cash, spend it as you like!!

[tricky1962]

One bonus of that system in my opinion is the increased generator output. The T500 alternator appears to put out about 50-60W and the headlight is a rather pathetic 25/35W affair. With 180W to play with, one could run a nice and bright 55/60W headlight with no worries about flattening batteries (if you had one fitted).

An expensive mod. but worth considering imo.

[jabcb]

That's a good price for all of those parts.

Another plus is that you can upgrade to an AGM battery.

If its stock, your T500J has a flat-bottom headlight. You'll have plenty of alternator output for a halogen headlight but I haven't seen any good looking upgrades that keep the flat-bottom look.

[tricky1962]

I managed to find someone selling 45/45W bulbs to fit my headlight. I have one in at the moment, but with the light on, the alternator doesn't start to charge the battery until the engine is running at 3000rpm and above without indicators etc. So far I've not had a problem, time will tell.

I had half a mind to buy a second hand H4 headlamp, cut the back out of it and epoxy it to the back of the flat bottomed headlamp I have fitted and fit a 55/60W quartz halogen bulb, but don't think the alternator could keep the battery charged. As I'm one of those who runs the headlight on all the time, I worry about battery charge.

[smokin_blue]

Now you are on to my thinking. Since I am building a full custom I am going to put enough time, effort, and money into it I want to take care of the small things that dog a 40 year old bike with a marginal electrical and ignition system.

My key things I never liked about my GT250 was that if the battery was not fully up to snuff the ignition suffered, especially at low revs. I at times had to shut the headlight off to keep it running at intersections.

Now I will have plenty of power. I can upgrade to a 55w headlight. Not have to worry about points or condensers. And not loose any ignition at high revs.

Yes a lot of money but hopefully it will be worth it. Nothing has been cheap about this project yet. (and I don't expect that will change any time soon!)

[Vintageman]

My key things I never liked about my GT250 was that if the battery was not fully up to snuff the ignition suffered, especially at low revs. I at times had to shut the headlight off to keep it running at intersections.

My 74 gt250 has this same issue when running the pathetic head light. I even have the extra lightiing coil connected. But my 76 GT250 and 75 T500 does not have this issue and same system. These later bike have the V reg where the 74 uses batt only.

I always thought my 74 gt250 did not have enough energy to keep batt charged even while running when head light on. so when at stop low idle batt is low??? coil has little energy. I have new batt.

I have never verified my charging system yet. I mean the bike will run for many hours just as long as head light is not on. Someday I'll check and maybe have bad rect or something. I did change magnetic rotor.

Other than Vreg I am not sure how much different a 74 vs 76 gt250/t500 is for wiring.

As far as electronic ignition. I prefer the reliability of points. Yes reliability. Man those electronic systems do fail then you are screwed ... good luck with that warranty claim and rush shipping (short riding season where I am).

To be reliable you must have good OEM points and condenser (well bonded to chassis). Yes you have to check timing every few hundred miles. So what. With these Suz and their rotor marks (yes you should verify your rotor marks with gauge first) 5 -10 minutes you are spot on again. Easy to fix, easy to set. basically bullet proof IMO.