Sanders and Lewis

[johnno666]

Hi guys i have a Sanders and Lewis framed GT 750 Suzuki with a few parts off of a GSXR k5 750 i was wondering if any one had any information on the Sanders and Lewis frame or any bikes or anyone that is known to have or have had one many thanks john

[oldjapanesebikes]

I wrote a small bit about them about half way down this page. http://www.oldjapanesebikes.com/GT750_f ... e/page-A52" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . The one in the left photo (just click for a larger image) also nicely shows the Piper 3 into 1 pipe fitted to it.

I also have the issue of Bike magazine the photos came from if you want some additional data.

[johnno666]

hi and thanks so much ive read the article in bike magazine but its the first time ive ever seen the advert and i love it, i need to find as much out about the frame and any bikes as i can, because i am trying to register one for the road here in the UK and need to show the providence of the frame/bike so i can register it. once again thanks for the help so far. john

[tz375]

Are we sure that red bike is a Bakker? I was under the impression that it's an S&L. I have yet to see a Bakker frame for a GT that looked like that - even though the story back in the day was that S&L bought/borrowed/stole a Bakker frame and copied it, the GT/XR frames that Nico made typically look different.

S&L frame looks a lot like an XR11 low boy frame in shape and general design.

[oldjapanesebikes]

Are we sure that red bike is a Bakker?

Well - that's a good question Richard. 85% sure I suppose. There was this article which had the same two photos - probably the originals, so I should update the photo credit I've given. The Bike magazine article does specifically say that Sanders and Lewis bought a Nicco Bakker frame used by Phil Read and goes on to say that the S&L " new frame kit is an unashamed close copy of that design". I did correspond with 'Bakker Framebouw' which is still a going concern, who confirmed they had made a handful of frames for GT750 engines.

So I'm fairly sure, but without actual documentation there is always room for doubt.

[tz375]

I have read that article before and it is a little odd that the many Bakker frames made in the era do not look like that. Frame tubes around teh steering head are like an XR11 and unlike most Bakker frames that I have seen.

I still have a hard copy of that BIKE article that I tore out all those years ago and kept. Obviously I don't know what the story was or where Saxon got the frame shape from and who knows after all these years what's true and what was said to cover something else. Imagine that. People used to lie even back then. And to happily copy the work of others and admit to it.

It would be interesting to know how true those stories are and to see a picture from Nico B of his early GT750 frames.

[oldjapanesebikes]

Frame tubes around teh steering head are like an XR11 and unlike most Bakker frames that I have seen.

Could be wrong, but wasn't the XR11 a twin shock ? The Bakker and the S&L are both mono-shock.

[tz375]

correct. I was only talking about the main cradle on 74-75 bikes. Good point about the swingarm. Does anyone know who worked at Saxon back then and can they shed light on the story.

I also haven't been able to find a reference to Phil Reed the Prince of Speed, riding a Baker framed XR11 or Barton. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that so far no proof of provenance. If someone knows Phil or lives in Luton, now would be a good time to see what record/photos he has from the early seventies.

What's more odd is that the Red bike and other bikes said to be S&L made by Saxon all share the same pinch bolt swingarm pivot retention method - as do some Bakker frames. But that's the only characteristic of the frames that appears to look like a Bakker. Frame bends are all unlike Bakker pictures we have seen

To make this even more confusing, the only picture of what is said to be a Saxon with NOVA reed motor has conventional swingarm pivot location.

What does this tell us? not a lot unfortunately but makes for interesting reading.

[Suzukidave]

John , any pictures of your project you could post so we can see what you have

[philshort]

John

Hi mate, I have s S&L that I am rebuilding as well. I've had it since 1982, and it's spent most of that time in boxes unfortunately. I've started getting bits made, and the swing arm pivot was a problem for me as I have lost most of the parts over the years. It is indeed the pinch bolt, but I don't have the actual pivot bolt, just some long skinny thing with alloy disc end caps that I think located the actual pivot laterally before the pinch bolts clamped it. I don't really remember how it went, any info would be appreciated if yours is similar. I have had a new titanium pivot and end caps made up anyway, and just need some new bronze bushes to finish that area off.

I'm a good way off getting mine back together; it did have GSX1000 wheels which I got rid of, and I'm not sure what I will be using. My plan was to have spoked wheels made up with alloy rims, and I have a 77 GS750 rear disc hub and a standard GT750 front hub for that purpose, but there are some Fondseca Morris or Campag wheels on eBay that might do the job, so not decided yet. I'll be getting the engine rebuilt by BDK and the current plan is to rebuild the forks with cartridges. I've still got the period Lockheeds that were fitted and are now quite rare and valuable.

I joined the SOC to try to get some providence for my bike, but they were happy to take my membership fee but not willing to help. I don't have the original engine my bike had as that was wiped out in the crash that took the bike off the road (front wheel bearing collapse, right side of engine wiped off), so I'm not sure how I will get on trying to register the bike again.

I'd be happy to help out with any info if I can, and would be very interested in how you get on putting your bike back on the road.

Cheers
Phil