1966 Suzuki b100p started, dump, won't start...HELP!

[Suzi66]

Hi,
I'm am just learning how to ride a motorcycle, and therefore, just learning the basics of the mechanical aspects as well. This is what happened:

I was practicing in my back yard and lost it trying to navigate around my garage. I fell over with my bike on and in first gear. Of course, it stalled out. I wobbled hard to the left, mashing the key into my leg (hard enough to rip my pants and puncture my skin), and then wobbled over to the right and dumped it on the right side. By that time, I was going very slow, but, still, dumped it nonetheless.

I was discouraged (and hurt), so I put it away in the garage--properly...key off, gas off, etc. Then, about a week later, I went back out to try again. It started right up, ran for about 30 seconds and then stalled out. After that, I haven't been able to get it started AT ALL.

I've contacted a friend, who specializes in vintage Japanese bikes, but he's flaking on me and I REALLY want to figure this out before it gets too cold and I store it for winter. I'm afraid I did something when I fell. Any ideas or suggestions?

I've checked all of the connections, made sure I didn't dislocate anything...I'm not a mechanic, so apart from anything super technical...but, I am capable of basic mechanical tasks. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!!

[Suzi66]

Hi again, I didn't see a way to edit my post, so I'm replying to it instead.
If a little more info helps, here it is:

Not that it matters as far as capabilities go, but I'm a female whose attempting to go at this solo...I don't have any friends or family to help me out with this--and no local 2-stroke enthusiasts. I just don't want you all to think I'm just some knuckle-head.

I'm just wondering...if I tipped over on one side or the other, can something happen to make the oil or gas get into parts that it shouldn't be? I mean, would something like that happen to make it not start again?

I'm going to buy a manual online, but I don't want to pay a bazillion dollars, so I'm waiting.

Thanks,

Christy

[oldjapanesebikes]

Welcome to the board !

Did you have a battery installed, or were you running this without a battery ? If you had a battery installed, then from your description, I think the first thing I'd check is that your battery is OK and hasn't shorted out during the fall onto its side. I think (jabcb is the expert, and he may chime in) that you have a magneto ignition system on that model, and so technically it should be able to run without a battery. If there is a battery, and if you have no lights, no horn then I would check the fuse (15 amp).

Good luck and let us know what you find out !

[titan performance]

Hi Suzi.....you did remember to turn the gas back on? It sounds unlikely that there is some physical fault as you say the bike started fine and ran ok for 30 seconds. These old strokers are quite simple really. Start by checking you have got a spark at the plug, and fuel reaching the carb.
Let us know what you find.....

[Suzi66]

OK, about the battery: I was thinking about that. It does have a battery and the light and horn does NOT work (battery dead). But, the bike has worked fine despite that--the guy I purchased it from said that I would have to buy a battery at some point to get the light to work, etc. But, it occurred to me that, maybe, it had something to do with it not starting. I was under the impression that, because it's a kick start, it doesn't need a charge from the battery to start. I am mistaken?

Also, spark plug: I considered that. I have to borrow a spark plug tool to check. I just bought a gap gauge and read about the gap distance, etc. I will also check that...probably AFTER I try buying a new battery.

I won't be able to try until Friday, so I'll keep you posted. I REALLY, REALLY appreciate your input.

Thanks so much guys!!

Christy

[Suzi66]

P.S. Fuel is reaching carb fine, I believe. I do always remember to turn the gas on and off and the gas line with the fuel filter (?) [I think that's what it is...it's the same as in an air-cooled VW car?] has gas in it and looks like its feeding gas into the carb. But, like I said, I'm just learning and I don't know anything about bikes or mechanics or engines. I have owned air-cooled VW's in the past, but I only did small temporary fixes on them. It's good to get input from others, because then I can start to learn through the process of elimination and trial and error.

Thanks Again!

[jabcb]

As a beginner rider one of the best things you can do is to take a Motorcycle Safety Foundation course.
Depending on your state, course charge is either a modest fee or is free.
For beginner classes, the program provides bikes & for advanced classes you use your own.

Here is a link for Michigan: http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-12 ... --,00.html

[Suzi66]

YES! I am planning on doing that. However, the NEXT class isn't until April 2014. So, I am on the wait list. We only have two locations near Traverse City and the list fills up way before the classes. I am just so excited about having the bike, I don't want to just sit and look at it. I am very, very good and comfortable at driving a manual transmission car (I know, WAY different), so I figured I could at least teach myself how to use a clutch on a motorcycle. However, it's proving to be more difficult than I thought.
But, yes, safety training course in April.

Thanks so much!!

[titan performance]

In my experience, some bikes will run on a flat battery, and some will not. Usually, you can see the neutral light come on as you kick it over, even if the battery is totally dead.
You can test for spark without removing your plug....obviously you wont get to see the condition of your plug, but the bike falling over can't damage it, particularly as it has run good since. Pull the plug cap off, and just put a spare one in....earth it on the head, and kick.

[Suzi66]

Thanks! Yes, the bike ran great with no battery charge for quite some time. The guy I bought it from is a X-games pro racer and I trust that he answered all of my questions accurately when I purchased it. It's just my lack of knowledge.

I really appreciate all of your input! I will check the plug tomorrow when I purchase a new battery. Onward-ho!

P.S. I'm going to look for a manual now...as soon as I post this message.

Thanks again! Everyone in this forum is super!

[tz375]

That bike uses a magneto ignition. What that means is that the power for the ignition comes from a separate coil inside the alternator, and the battery is only there for the lights and horn so that there is a stable voltage. It would be a good idea to replace the battery, but it should not have any impact on ignition.

Other than running out of fuel, it's hard to see why it would not continue to run. You mentioned that there was fuel but I'm not sure if that was before or if that's now. If the carb has a drain screw on the bottom that you can get to, I would crack it open and see if much fuel come out. It is possible that some debris has been dislodged and has jammed a fuel passage in the fuel tap or inside the carb.

I would start with the spark though. Remove the plug cap, which should be reasonably hard to pull up off the plug, and remove the spark plug. If it's old and worn and dirty, get a new one. Push the plug back into the cap and lay the plug on top of the motor with metal touching metal and then kick the bike and look for a spark at the electrodes. If there is no spark, you have to look at the ignition system for the problem.

If there is a reasonable spark the problem is probably in the fuel system.

It might be helpful if you could post some pictures of the bike. It's possible that someone may spot something.

[Suzi66]

Wow! Huge reply... Thank you. I can't fully respond at the moment, but I will. I will also take a bunch of photos later this afternoon and upload them.
I'll try to snap a shot of everything.
Thanks so much...
Until later!

[Suzi66]

Hello,
I had said that I was going to upload some photos so that everyone can get an idea of the logistics of my bike. It's been raining in Traverse City for about 4 or 5 days, so yesterday was the first good day for photos.

Also, about the battery: I had to order one. It will be here today. That's what it's like living in a small city!

So, here are a bunch of photos. Please let me know if you see anything or if anything comes to mind. I tried to start her up again yesterday...no luck. Maybe I should just try to find an engine repair course to take over the winter!

Thanks again guys! Let me know if you need bigger photos.

[oldjapanesebikes]

That looks really clean - nice find !

Going back to the original question then - it was running fine, it fell over, it started for a moment and then stopped and now is totally dead. It has fuel. As I mentioned further up and as tz375 confirmed, it is a magneto generator and so the engine should run fine with no battery, but there is a dead battery in the circuit. And when it fell over, the ignition switch was knocked, but it still seems to work fine. That model uses an injector oil pump - you have injector oil in the reservoir and there is no reason to suspect oil was not being injected. All correct ?

You could have holed the piston - sounds like you don't have tools so a very simple check it to remove the spark plug and put a wine bottle cork in the plug hole and then kick over the engine (one of the plastic corks - not one actually made of cork as you don't want bits of cork in the cylinder). If the cork blows out, then the piston is probably OK. I still suspect the current problem could be related to the fall, and specifically be electrical. Possibly a connector has pulled loose, the ignition switch is damaged, the battery has shorted out or the fuse has blown - something like that. When you have the new 6 volt battery installed (make sure you get the polarity correct when connecting the leads), check the 15 amp fuse to be sure it is good and then see what happens.

[tz375]

Nice looking bike. I can see why you fell in love with it. There's nothing obviously wrong in any of those pictures so I'd suggest the following.

Remove spark plug. Use the cork technique that Ian (oldjapanesebikes) suggested to see if there's compression. You could get more sophisticated and borrow a compression tester from your local auto parts store and test the compression.

Next, put the spark plug back into the plug cap and lay the plug on the cylinder head (metal touching metal), turn it on and kick it to see if there's a spark at the plug.

If the plug is wet or oily, get a new plug or buy a spark tester form your auto parts store. They are cheap and easy to use. Then buy a new plug and see if fitting that cures the problem, - but only after testing for spark as described above.

Then come back and tell us what you found.