'75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in 1st

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PippiFyrecracker
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'75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in 1st

Post by PippiFyrecracker »

Hey guys! so I'm wondering where to start with this, I am having ALOT of trouble switching into neutral at lights and even when I am parking, I've tried kicking it harder, but I don't want to damage anything and its not usually this hard. It's stuck in first, and when I finally result to reaching over with my hand to pull up really hard on the shifter it goes into second.


Things that may/ may not be related

I think it mostly happens when it's hot, and I've been riding
I'm also hitting a false neutral between 4th and 5th everyonce in a while



measures I've tried

I've also tried making sure that I down shift through all the gears and disengaging the clutch between each one, including 1st and giving it gas. still stuck.

I tried rocking it and rolling backwards a bit. still stuck

thanks for your input!
GT750Battleship
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by GT750Battleship »

:? Hi,there is NO Dip Stick,drain & fill to 1,400cc with 20w50 regular motor oil,DO NOT use synthetics.OR oils that are friction modified....this will cause clutch to slip,on the outer clutch cover lower down you should see a 10ml nut with a Philips Head Screw,this is the oil level screw hole that oil will flow from when gear oil reaches the correct level. Personally I measure what I put in first, just to be sure of the amount...but once oil runs from the hole you should be O.K. Don't know what happened here..this post was in response to your post on "gearbox question" :shock: In regard to gear changes,finding neutral etc,this could be lack of oil/wrong oil,clutch adjustment or internal gear selector problems,worn gear drive "dogs" are not uncommon on bikes of this age :cry:
Cheers,
Roger
Suzuki GT750A
Last edited by GT750Battleship on Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by rngdng »

Clutch dragging will make it hard to get into neutral.


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ConnerVT
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by ConnerVT »

GT750Battleship wrote::....you should see a 10ml nut with a Philips Head Screw,this is the oil level screw hole that oil will flow from when gear oil reaches the correct level...
This is incorrect. It is the oil level screw for 1200cc of oil, not the 1400cc of oil needed in the 1975 T500. Suzuki changed the crankcase, in 1973, to require an additional 200cc of transmission oil. But they never moved the oil level screw. so no reason ever to remove that screw.

I have no desire to start another "oil thread', but there are two camps of thought - to use motor oil, as Suzuki specified back in the 1970's; or to use gear oil, designed for modern transmissions and transaxles. Myself, I use a 80W90 GL-4/GL-5 gear oil, trying to avoid the additives and "friction modifiers" which modern motor oils now contain 40 years after Suzuki made their recommendations. But in nearly all applications, either works fine, as long as the oil is maintained and at the correct level.

The shift from 4th to 5th on the T500 has never been great. I have the issue on both T500s I have owned (now and back in the 80's), though instead of hitting neutral, it tends to stay in 4th. Others I have spoken to see the same issue. I tend to think of 5th as overdrive, and spend a longer time in 4th. More fun that way.

Being stuck in 1st is a bigger issue. A maladjusted clutch and low/improper oil are things I would eliminate as cause before suspecting anything more serious.
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by GT750Battleship »

Sorry I stand corrected,you are right ofcause as the crankcase cover was never modified for the new oil level in regard to the screw hole,but what I did say was to measure in 1,400cc,so I got that right !I have had good results with gear changing problems by switching grades of oil & getting the amount right ? less drag when cold etc. Being stuck in gear can be a number of things...I had a GT750M years ago that every now & again would get stuck in 3rd,& not budge...stop the bike & start again was the only way to get neutral or any gear...proved to be a bent selector :evil: jumping out of gear is most likely worn dogs,false neutrals can sometimes be the fault of the operator...rushed gear changes & the like.
Cheers,
Roger
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ConnerVT
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by ConnerVT »

No problem, Roger. Just hate for someone to make an expensive mistake. After changing the crankcase sometime in the 1973 model year, the only reliable way of knowing how much oil is actually in the case is to drain it well, and fill it with 1400cc.

I agree with everything else you wrote. The T500 doesn't like a fast, sloppy shift from 4 to 5. I always try to be very deliberate when I make that one (5 to 4 is never a problem).

Bent shift forks, worn dogs or gears, all can cause shifting issues. But eliminating a badly setup clutch and checking the oil levels are much easier first try things to do.
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by titan performance »

Most likely cause is too much free play in the clutch adjustment .
Keeping old 2 strokes alive !
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by PippiFyrecracker »

I took my side cases off to see if oil was leaking anywhere on the sides, or onto the alternator it was dry.Then I drained it and I only had about a Litre of oil in there, I'm hoping it was from running it before I changed the oil seals, but I don't see how I could lose 400cc just running it in the driveway, then I drove it 30 km afterwards. But there were too many variables when I was test riding so I'm switching my oil type to the 80w90, and I'm going to mark the oil level with something I can test it with, this way I can tell if I'm still losing oil.
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by Coyote »

On most of the bikes I have owned, neutral is always easiest to get when rolling in second gear. Then a little half push on the shifter and it slips right in. Also, I don't adjust the clutch by the book. Most say to screw the adjuster in till tension is felt and back it off a given amount before locking. I adjust till tension is felt and lock it right there. This gives you maximum plate separation when the lever is pulled in. Then I adjust the cable at the lever to get the engagement point I like. Just don't go crazy when pre-loading the pressure plate or it will slip under hard acceleration.
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PippiFyrecracker
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by PippiFyrecracker »

so we adjusted that screw and the clutch is great now!
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by PippiFyrecracker »

so it's only happened a handful of times since we fixed it, mostly when its running hot. I also determined the clutch is slipping so hopefully after repairing that, it will abolish this issue completely
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by titan performance »

Clutch slip on the 500 is a common problem....
Keeping old 2 strokes alive !
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PippiFyrecracker
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by PippiFyrecracker »

update still having the issue here and there, I will try adjusting the clutch release screw again, I'm planning on taking apart the clutch and measuring the plates... it seems strange that I'm always having to adjust this....
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in

Post by Alan H »

When you strip the clutch, make sure the clutch body fingers (that the friction plates slide in) are smooth.
If they are slightly worn/notched the clutch will drag and neutral selection will be well nigh impossible.
Like the ones on the right clutch basket
Image
Ease that ridges with a smooth file and the problem will go away.
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
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Re: '75 T500 can't switch into neutral w stopped + stuck in 1st

Post by Flipper66 »

hello everyone, someone knows which main jet is normally installed in the T500, with built-in 150 jets my T500 MK2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTvIfGO1mmM
runs too rich and the engine stops at full throttle, even if the needles are already at the bottom. Floats are at 27.3mm. with nozzles 100 it works, but not yet perfectly!
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