HELP! Kickstarter cog stuck in the OUT position GT380

[Ramjam]

you do know that i hate you, dont you, Alan?

[Alan H]

Sorry for causing such anguish. Such is my way in life..........

[tz375]

What did you find inside that cover?

[Ramjam]

hi
i opened it this morning and found that the spring was not broken but no longer 'loaded'. Even though it was me who did this originally (i rebuilt the engine last summer) i woulcn't work out why the mechanism is not working. The 'hook' which is supposed to go (behind?) the lip while the tension is increased with the kickstarter just doesn't want to go in now.

When you pull the kickstarter down to begin its near 200 odd degree turn it only get not even half the way and that lip on the back starts to move around (anti clockwise) with it.

I also notice that i can't seem to get the cog off. It moves out and frees itself from the flywheel if i lever it out. But it can't seem to be pulled off nor push back into its place.

i'm really clueless. Please help if you can.

MJ

[tz375]

It looks like the return spring is inside the crankcases and if it has come unstuck, the motor will probably have to be split.

The drive gear is probably hanging up on the clutch basket, so remove the clutch springs and hub and basket and it should pop off its shaft.

[Ramjam]

thanks for that TZ. Appreciate that, mate. Bloody hope i dont have the split the cases though. The last time i did that, i did it in the kitchen and the wife left me. I'm not kidding.

M

[Ramjam]

taking the clutch basket off hasn't really helped. I still can see that even after i put back the lip of the spring behind the fixed lip, nothing is working as it should.
When the lip is in place, the cog remains stuck 'in' as in it doesn't fly out.
Also. the lip on the spring moves around in tandem with the kick starter lever (i always thought it was supposed to stay in place)

the thing that is puzzling me is the fly out cog of the kickstarter mechanism. Isn't it supposed to spin freely on the shaft? Mine looks like mine is seized.

Also, i noticed that i can pull out the cog by hand about 1cm so it is clean off the small flywheel but it wont come further.

Please put me out of my misery. I'm baffled

best

MJ in Beirut

[tz375]

Looking at all the pictures and parts lists it seems that the large toothed gear on the kickstarter shaft should rotate freely and should slide off the shaft. Behind (inside) that is the pawl which is splined to the shaft and has a bit that protrudes forwards and engages with a steel plate when the shaft is fully forward. That gear engages with one that spins on the countershaft (behind the clutch)

The spring pushes that out to engage with the dogs on the rear face of the gear as the shaft is rotated slightly.

The spring that rotates the whole shaft/lever/gear assembly is inside the cases.

If the kickstarter shaft rotates forwards strongly, then the main spring is probably NOT the problem.

The gear not rotating on the shaft and not sliding off sounds like the major issue. Pull that gear off and inspect the shaft and gear to determine what is wrong.

[Ramjam]

the only thing i can think of is that perhaps the shaft has somehow siezed with the cog locked. Is that possible? That would explain why the cog doesn't move out.

But when you say 'cog move forward' you mean when you put the kickstarter lever on and move it in the opposite direction to when you kick it?

thanks

[tz375]

That gear has to be removed from the shaft. It is designed to spin freely at all times. The likely culprit was low oil level.

It's hard to describe the motions in words, but think of it this way. The kickstarter lever is splined to the shaft and the gear is permanently engaged with another gear on the countershaft.

As you rotate the kickstart lever back/down, the pawl rotates and slides outwards and the dogs engage with the gear and at that point teh lever is connected to the gear solidly. At all over times/positions, the gear is just spinning on the kickstarter shaft. In your case that gear is now seized onto the shaft and is hard to remove.

You will have to pull the gear off with a gear puller and see if the gear or the shaft or both are damaged. The gear is probably lubricated by splash feed to the shaft and then it "leaks out" through a feed hole under the gear.

Here is a clutch http://www.ebay.com/itm/72-SUZUKI-GT380 ... 0813100108" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; See the small gear on teh back? That's what all those gars engage with to start it.

Here's the shaft and gear http://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-Suzuki-GT3 ... 1021710870" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The gear and pawl http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-kickstart- ... 0839388844" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are others there.

[Ramjam]

.Yeah but at the moment my kickstarter cog is stuck on the 'first' cog, which is the one which spins freely. It won't 'fly' out. So could it be that i am a bit lucky and it's just stuck?

yes, for sure and the oil was low. I will look for a puller. There is no point trying to get WD in there and try and lever it off? Any tips? Finding a puller in Lebanon is going to be hard for 2 reasons. I dont speak arabic, eveyone has a pistol stuffed down the back of their trouser and most are mad. bugger, that was three.

[tz375]

With ISis and Syrian refugees and fighters plus all the usual tensions there, I'm not surprised that they are mad and armed.

But a puller should be possible in almost any simple back yard car mechanic. do you have a picture of which gear is stuck on the shaft? There should be a gear that rotates freely and behind that is the pawl "gear". It is splined and can only move straight in and out. If the shaft is rotated fully forward, it will be locked in behind the stop.

[Ramjam]

i tried uploading photos but Sundial refused to take them, saying i was a a limit now.

Just to be clear, I have removed the clutch basket. And all i have is two small cogs. One on the k/starter which is meshed into the 'free' wheeling cog. I ddn't know there was a cog behind that one (!). So what you have is the kickstarter cog stuck, if you like, in the freewheeling position meshed into the cog, which is a free spinner anyway.
hope that helps

MJ

[tz375]

Ah so. Yes, there are several gears in that gear train. The critical one here is the one on the kickstarter shaft which is designed to spin freely except when you push on the lever.

If that gear is seized on the shaft, it has to be pulled off and probably replaced. If you cannot beg borrow or steal - and I don't mean that literally - a three legged puller, it might be easier to get a complete shaft and gear off ebay and strip the motor to replace the whole assembly. You may end up doing that if the shaft or gear are damaged anyway, so maybe it's easier to go ahead and pull the motor.

The way to attach photos is to upload them to photobucket or other web hosting service and link the URL using the image tags to embed it ""