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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:38 am 
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Country: England, UK
Bikes owned: FZ50, GP100, RG125 Gamma, GT380, Bandit 1200S
On the wiring the Black wire is to the RIGHT coil and the White is to the LEFT coil.
With regard to the not-fitting trigger for the new ignition system. Are you sure you have been trying to fit it the right way up?
I see what looks like scuff marks around the magnets, as if someone tried to insert it the wrong way around.
Is the new one the same height as the old one?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:30 am 
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Moto GP
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Good point, but the plate should fit over the rotor, so the hole must be tiny or the rotor is oversize and maybe intended for something else.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:33 pm 
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On the street

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Location: Essex, England
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Bikes owned: GT 250 1975
tz375 wrote:
Micron wrote:
tz375 wrote:
I think so. The pickup plate should be designed to mount on the outside of the alternator, so if that is gone now, you will probably have to mount it some other way.

I take it from those comments that the "nose" of the new rotor is too large to fit in the matching recess in the alternator rotor. If that's teh issue, turn it down or machine up a "washer-adapter" to mate the two parts.

If you are trying to bolt the new rotor directly to the crankshaft nose, that would present other difficulties but again it's just a case of making the parts match each other. When we mount a DYNA rotor straight on the end of a Honda twin crank, either the rotor has to be machined to match the crank taper or the end of the crank has to be shortened to match the rotor.



The replacement plate fits on to the alternator to replace the Newtronic one, the problem is the new shaft will not fit in to the middle hole, because the bottom of the shaft is too large for the opening.

I think that I should be able to work out the wiring after reading some of the replies on here, just need to sort the shaft, and then setting up the timing.

I am in discussions with the manufacturer about bits etc.


Just a wild idea, but why not take a stepped drill to the backing plate to open up the hole?


Just to clarify the problem is with the magneto part, not the alternator and plate part. The hole in the end of the crank shaft is too small. Once Paul is able to take some pictures I will post them up.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:06 am 
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Location: Essex, England
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Bikes owned: GT 250 1975
Now with pictures, and hopefully I can explain the problem. (sorry pictures are not in the correct order)

The smaller part of the new shaft is 14.5mm in diameter, but the opening on the magneto is 14.2mm.

Does anyone have access to a GT250A magneto and could check the opening size, as the manufacturer is saying that they have never had a problem before?

Please ignore the newtronic sensors they are what is currently on the bike, not the new sensors.

Image
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Image
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:27 am 
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Moto GP
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Location: Illinois
I see what you are dealing with. The conversions I have done with other manufacturers ignitions, the rotor does not fit insed the threaed part of the alternatior, but sits like stock points cam in the shallow recess.

That explains the long thin section on yours.

Two possible solutions - make the hole bigger or make the shaft smaller. That hole is threaded to take an extractor bolt to remove the alternator. The threads may be damaged and rough. I would think that you could get a small rotary tool bit in there and gently clean the threads a little. Go slowly. You only need to remove 0.3mm off the diameter so that's 0.15mm radially - just a slight clean up.

You could also get someone to turn down the small end to 14.1mm to clear the threads, but I think that cleaning the peaks of the threads should be sufficient


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:47 pm 
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On the street

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Location: Essex, England
Country: United Kingdom
Bikes owned: GT 250 1975
tz375 wrote:
I see what you are dealing with. The conversions I have done with other manufacturers ignitions, the rotor does not fit insed the threaed part of the alternatior, but sits like stock points cam in the shallow recess.

That explains the long thin section on yours.

Two possible solutions - make the hole bigger or make the shaft smaller. That hole is threaded to take an extractor bolt to remove the alternator. The threads may be damaged and rough. I would think that you could get a small rotary tool bit in there and gently clean the threads a little. Go slowly. You only need to remove 0.3mm off the diameter so that's 0.15mm radially - just a slight clean up.

You could also get someone to turn down the small end to 14.1mm to clear the threads, but I think that cleaning the peaks of the threads should be sufficient



So if I run a tap or is it die ( I can never remember!) through the thread it might resolve the problem?

Thanks

Trev


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Bikes owned: FZ50, GP100, RG125 Gamma, GT380, Bandit 1200S
Looks like the wrong part to me.
Why put a long stem on it when it is not necessary?
But hey, I could be wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:50 pm 
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On the street

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Location: Essex, England
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Bikes owned: GT 250 1975
sportston wrote:
Looks like the wrong part to me.
Why put a long stem on it when it is not necessary?
But hey, I could be wrong.


I know what you mean Tom, but I have been in contact with them and they say they haven't had problems before now, and that maybe the opening is a wrong part, which is why I wanted someone to check theirs


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:40 am 
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I see. In that case it must be like TZ said, incorrect generator rotor or crappy threads stopping it from fitting into the hole.
The tool you need is a tap. I'm not 100% sure, but you might need to remove the generator rotor to get the tap to reach the bottom of the threads.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:57 am 
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Bikes owned: 69 T350 thru 75 GT750
T500 stators have two different parts numbers. Could be that one of the differences is the puller threads.

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BAS (Bike Acquisition Syndrome) - too many bikes but have room for more

Suzuki:
GT750 2x75
GT550 72 project & 75
GT380 72
T500 73 project
T350 69, 71 & 72 project
T250 72
Honda 85 CB650SC & 86 CB700SC
09 Triumph Bonneville SE


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:36 am 
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That's possible. We are only talking a poofteenth here. 14.2 to 14.5mm.

You could try to run a tap down the rotor threads but as was mentioned, take the rotor off first. Wit so little metal to remove, I'd take teh rotor off and use a sanding drum on a dremmel tool to lightly take the peaks off those threads. Don't hog it out. Only 12 thou in diameter, 6 thou radially. It's just a light touch with a sanding drum.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:33 am 
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Bikes owned: several gt250 ramairs
http://www.classicsuzukiparts.nl/wp-con ... 020363.jpg
wish i'd actually looked at this first, i could have commented something like this: oh look, it looks just like the system i've been using for about 8 years now [wish i'd patented it now] :(
BUT - why 2 pick-ups, when one will do? you need: one backplate with slots in it, one pick-up, and rotor with twin magnets. total cost? about £40 and ten minutes to fit it. wire the coils together [both orange to red wire on pick-up], black and white wires joined then to black wire on pick-up. find the magnets by laying the red trigger ring [rotor] on a piece of steel and mark positions with your trusty sharpie :D - helps when first setting timing up. easy peasy. fit and forget. you're now using wasted spark ignition, or you can use x7 or cbr600 single coil with twin ht leads - still wasted spark. think about it - one pick-up firing [say] the left cylinder, the magnets are exactly 180 degrees apart, so half a rev later it fires the right cylinder. go on fleabay and look for the powerspark electronic ignition for the fso and fiat cinqacento twin, otherwise you'll get the bigger trigger ring. the red trigger ring fits perfectly on the crank bolt head [which uses a 55mm long m8 now, must be a suzuki bolt or you'll have a 13mm af head, instead of 12mm and the rotor won't fit]. take the points, condensors and cam off and throw them in a drawer. after you've done it a few times - and believe me, i have - it really is a 10 minute job. don't waste money on these [hahaha] new inventions, save it towards your next set of spannys :D
cheers, dd.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:35 am 
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Bikes owned: FZ50, GP100, RG125 Gamma, GT380, Bandit 1200S
That is a great idea for a twin cylinder DD!
Shame something similar wouldn't work on a triple.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:38 pm 
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Moto GP
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Location: southwestern Pennsylvania
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Bikes owned: 69 T350 thru 75 GT750
That is how the PEI ignition works on the GT500. There is a single pickup & one coil with two HT leads.

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BAS (Bike Acquisition Syndrome) - too many bikes but have room for more

Suzuki:
GT750 2x75
GT550 72 project & 75
GT380 72
T500 73 project
T350 69, 71 & 72 project
T250 72
Honda 85 CB650SC & 86 CB700SC
09 Triumph Bonneville SE


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:16 am 
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Country: England, UK
Bikes owned: FZ50, GP100, RG125 Gamma, GT380, Bandit 1200S
There have been similar systems on many cars too. It is a very good cheap ignition.


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