Yikes~!!

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smokeymon
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Yikes~!!

Post by smokeymon »

I finally got my 500 cases apart.I pulled the crank and realized the bearings on both ends are shot. So I started looking at replacements. I just about fainted. They are insanely expensive. Are these the only available options for this?? If thats the case I will likely have to stick with the 550 and sell off the 500. The cost of those bearings plus the price of install would go a very long way toward other items needed.I am in canada so I would have to tack on nearly 40% more to the price due to the rate of exchange and the insane shipping costs.
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akendall1966
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by akendall1966 »

What option are you looking at? They are no longer available OEM so the NoS that come up occasionally fetch a premium. There are Japanese repro's (Cruzin Image) which aren't cheap, but probably less than you'd fined NoS.
smokeymon
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by smokeymon »

Ya it was the cruzinimage ones I saw.And they dont even ship to canada for some reason. The NOS stuff is just nuts. I didnt know if anyone had maybe found a cheaper way to do them, like use an off the shelf bearing pressed into a sleeve or something.
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akendall1966
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by akendall1966 »

Yes it been done putting a 6305 bearing into the machined out old bearing or new bush. They available from dino GT but more expensive the the repro's. You might be able to get something done locally cheaper, but time is money setting up to do a couple of bearings is likely to put you in the same place cost wise.

http://www.dinogt.fr/vente-de-pieces/su ... ilebrequin
smokeymon
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by smokeymon »

Yes I can see there is not likely a cheaper way. Would a bushing need to be made from hardened steel? I know it must be very accurate but if a complete bearing of a slightly smaller size were used then would'nt a strong steal bushing do.Its only sitting in an aluminum case after all. In that case a bushing could be made to accept a bearing and seal from say a gt550 which seam to be much less expensive. A small shop or a machinist that does work on the side might be able to do it for a reasonable price.
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PippiFyrecracker
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by PippiFyrecracker »

curious, what you decided on in the end? can we get an update?
smokeymon
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by smokeymon »

I had to put it on hold for various reasons so nothing has been resolved at this point. I am Just now getting back at it. First I need to get my crank bearings off and remove the seals so I can get a good look at how these things are made, then go from there. I dont know if perhaps a standard bearing of suitable size could be disassembled and the parts put into the housings from the original crank bearings or if machining is the way to go.The only way I could see machining being cost effective is if I was able to find someone who has the ability to do it at home. If I have to pay a shop its not likely gonna save any money.
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Alan H
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by Alan H »

Unfortunately, these things cost what they cost. Unless someone who can split and rebuild the crank correctly does the job, it's likely that it will end up scrap.
Have you tried a ski do (or similar) dealer to see who they recommend?
There's this on ebay in the US - 173734159994 . But they're all a similar price. There's no such thing as a cheap leisure activity nowadays.
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
smokeymon
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by smokeymon »

Very true. There is no getting around a certain amount of cost. The main advantage I can see in having the old bearings machined to accept a standard size bearing is longevity. You only have to have them done once. All future crank rebuilds would just require new bearings pressed into the housing. There are replacement bearings available from places like CI but if those sources should ever dry up then what?
The other Idea I am toying with is looking at a change to the lubrication of the center bearings.As near as I can figure they are lubricated from the gearbox oil.Seems a bit odd to go this route as it requires extra seals. If the bearings could be lubed from the crankcase oil the same as the outer two bearings then likely a standard bearing of the correct dimensions could be used like in the rd350 motors.It would likely require the addition of an extra oil line to supply some oil to the bearings.

I have looked at some snowmobile crank bearings but only online. Some do look similar to the t500 bearings but I would have to see them in person to see if there is any potential there.
smokeymon
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by smokeymon »

Ok after some more research, i've learned that the extra two seals are needed in the center of the crank regardless of how the center bearing is lubed. They isolate the CC compression for the individual cylinders. However there is still some potential here for alternate bearings. I am still leaning toward adding separate oil lines for the center bearings.Personally I prefer to have the bearings always getting fresh oil as opposed to oil that is shared with the transmission.I will have to rebuild my oil pump and test it just to make sure it can provide adequate oil volume if two extra lines are added.
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by smokeymon »

Finally after several delays, I am making some progress. I had to build a press for doing the cranks.It is nearly done. I have taken the bearings in to a local shop to find out the cost to have them machined. It turns out it is very reasonable. They quoted me $35.00 cad. each bearing to machine if I remove the guts of the old bearings.The bearings that will be pressed into the old housings will run about $100 for a set of three.

I think I have come up with a way to change the lubrication of the center bearings so the are fed by the oil pump rather than dirty transmission oil.

In the mean time I have purchased another gt500. (1976/1977) from a co worker. I hope to bring it home in a few weeks. :D
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Alan H
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by Alan H »

Why not just change the gearbox oil more often? Clean(er) oil to the bearings and no messing with a pump delivering less feed per bearing per 'squirt'. And as the centre bearing doesn't leak oil to the cranks as the outers do, then where will the oil go after it lubes the centre bearing? Seems a lot of work and cost for little benefit really as there will have to be major rework of the cases.
It worked ok for the T500, GT500 and TR500 for long enough.
Just my take on it - no-one is wrong on a project, but everyone has differnt ways to reinvent something!
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
smokeymon
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by smokeymon »

Well at this point its just an idea. have not fully committed. It doesnt look like it will be a real hard task but i obviously dont want to create other issues.It seems as it would require a partial blockage of the passage ways and a small groove cut in the bearing seat where the exit hole for the oil is. This should allow the oil to be drawn into both cylinders via the vacuum. A hole would have to be drilled for a fitting in the top half of the crankcase to feed the oil. When i opened up the crankcases there was a lot of metal shavings in the bottom of the gear box which most certainly led to the destruction of the center bearing. The center one is the biggest pain to replace since it requires the crank to be split.

I am just the type of person that likes to meddle with this sort of thing and will be the first to admit that it doesnt always work for the better. :lol:

Anyhow like I said at this point its merely an Idea.
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by smokeymon »

My bearings are on order and should be here this week. I removed the innards from the crank bearings and they are ready to be machined. As soon as I have the new ones I will drop them off at the shop. By the time i get them back I will have the final bits of my press finished up and will press the new bearings into the housings. :up:
smokeymon
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Re: Yikes~!!

Post by smokeymon »

Well after quite a long wait my bearings are done. They look great and im glad i decided to go this route.
https://ken-turmon.imgbb.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This does not affect any of the lube holes in the bearings.
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