HELP! Kickstarter cog stuck in the OUT position GT380

[Ramjam]

HI
I've got a slight emergency in that tonight when i started my gt380 to come home from work, it ran for about 30 seconds as i revved it up then the kickstarter lever swung round quickly towards the ground and jammed the engine.

I checked the mechanism and found that it was permanently engaged i'e. the cog which flies out to engage with the flywheel must be 'out'. But what i dont understand is HOW could it be back in its normal position and THEN fly out when i rev up? Is it cos theres no oil in the gearbox? (guessing)

I'm stuck now as the bike is chained up at work. Could i removed the kickstarter lever and push start the bike to get it home tomorrow night?

Any advice enormously appreciated

MJ in Beirut

[Alan H]

I had something like this after my first 550 had been 'serviced' but they forgot to put oil in the gearbox. When it cooled the kickstart was OK, and just needed oil in the box. The kickstart went round because of the heat in the shaft caused binding. DON'T try to run without checking or you could knack the gearbox.

[Ramjam]

thanks Alan, i really appreciate that reply. I did have a slight leak which i used to keep an eye on but i just noticed today that the normal tiny bit of oil on the end of the sidestand was not there, so i 'm guessing now, after what you're written than it's pretty low and therefore the shaft is dry.
let's hope you're right. time to look for some 80-90 gearbox oil. Oooops, What have i said? teeh hee
MJ

[Alan H]

No, just use 20w50 engine oil. Ordinary cheap stuff, definitely not synthetic or the clutch will slip.

Weren't you in Beirut before? Have you moved or just got mixed up?

[Ramjam]

I'm both. Still in Beirut and quite mixed up. And i'm always mixed up about the oil debate with some saying a thicker gearbox oil is preferred. but i'm going to go with your 20.50 recommendation cos you're a decent enough bloke.

[Alan H]

Haha! I think so too.
Might be calling in Beirut in a few weeks in a cruise ship, not sure if we get off there for a look around though.

[Ramjam]

Update. Put oil in but cog still stuck in extended position engaged with flywheel !!! Please help with any other advice or tips on how to free it..
ALSO if i took off the kickstarter lever, would it be ok to push start the bike in gear without damaging any cogs? When i try and turn it over with the hand on the kickstarter, it's quite tight i must say.
thanks
MJ

[tz375]

The way I see it, there is no way to run the motor with the kickstarter in that position and if you could start it the damage would be extensive.

The kickstart lever fits on a shaft that goes all the way across the crankcases and is lubed through an oil drip hole in the bushes. If the drive gear is partially seized on the shaft, it will continue to try to rotate the kickstarter shaft and all the parts attached to it.

If the lever had rotated but was not hard to move, I would have suspected the pawl behind the outer cover. When the lever is rotated all the way forward by the return spring at the other end of the shaft, the pawl strikes a steel plate that pulls it out of engagement. As it rotates back even slightly, the ratchet engages and the lever and shaft are as one and a rotating motor will cause the kicker to rotate until the pawl smashes into the crankcase and stall it.

So the question is did the main spring fail allowing the motor to "drive" the kicker or did the shaft seize.

You could try to rotate the kicker forwards and see if it disengages cleanly. If it does, you MIGHT be OK to ride home, but if it the bike needs to be trucked home or stripped right where it lays. On the 380 the drive gear is under the clutch cover unlike the 550 and 750 where it's inside the main cases. If push came to shove you could remove the fuel tank and lay the bike on its left side and remove the kickstart lever and clutch cover. Then pull the gear and ratchet/pawl parts out. If the motor turns over easily, put the side cover back on timed correctly of course and you should be OK to bump start it.

I think the oil pump has it's own drive shaft on a 380 and doesn't use a gear on the kicker shaft to drive it. I think it's driven by the starter gear though. Check that and maybe you can ride it home with some oil added to the fuel just to get home. It may be possible to put the starter gear back on the shaft without the pawl/ratchet but you would have to determine that.

[Ramjam]

thanks so much for that.
I'm going to try and crank it forward tomorrow. Failing that, i will tak the side cover off and remove the whole thing. What worries me is if that spring has broken or lost its position

If the shaft was dry though, is there no way i could free it? i mean, by cranking it. Well, iguess that's what you meant by forward cranking it. But when i forward crank the lever by hand i find it quite hard already. Is there any point tapping it with a hammer? (the shaft)
mJ

[tz375]

Just remove the kickstart lever and side cover (remember there's oil in there) and remove the gear to get to the ratchet pawl. If the part that the pawl engages with can be removed and the drive gear can be replaced and it rotates freely to drive the pump, you should be OK.

I don't have a 380 and I'm working this out form photographs and parts diagrams but it looks possible from where I'm sitting. Take rags and cleaning stuff and gasket goo because the gasket may tear or stick when you remove the side cover and don't forget that it has to be timed if you let the timing gear or the crank move.

[Ramjam]

i was REALLY hoping that someone would know a technique to free it on the side of the road - maybe by putting it in gear and wiggling it back and fourth. Or by moving the kickstarter shaft forwards (in its opposite direction) as the bike is stuck in front of my office and if my only approach is to take the side off then i have to hire a truck to take the bike home.

thanks
MJ

[tz375]

Get that truck and take it home is the safe bet. Find out what is causing the problem and fix it.

[Alan H]

If you're taking it home on a truck, just take the chain link out and push the bike forward to get the chain off the gearbox sprocket. You can push the bike easily then. Mend (and swear at it) in the privacy of your garage then.

[Ramjam]

truck guy is a bit pricey. Still dont know why i can't just take off the kickstarter lever and push start it. How would that damage the cog if it is engaged with the flywheel.....

[Alan H]

Because the gearbox shaft is trying to turn the kickstart shaft and if it continues to do that, it will knack the gearbox.