Thanks again Jim - I'd missed that one and have added it. I'll also drop Paul an email and ask him if he would share the VIN of his 500/5.
That does appear to put to bed the 10 fin myth, and 10203 does look to be the earliest first long wheel base Cobra noted so far. Likewise, at the moment I appear to have the last "B' model made, but no doubt more will surface. I'll continue to track and update as the numbers filter in.
Ian
If at first you don't succeed, just get a bigger hammer !
PEDRO wrote:I've been working on these things since 1970 and I have NEVER seen a ten fin barrel and don't know anyone who has!!
Thanks Pete - it looks to be just an urban myth. Even the one photo I've been able to locate of a 500/5 clearly shows it as having 11 fins so I think we can put this one to bed.
Still looking for higher and lower engine/frame numbers for the 500/5, MkI, MkII and MkIII, as well as higher model 'B' numbers than what I've been able to capture so far on this list. any and all input is appreciated. This isn't a register, so numbers in the middle of each production range are not recorded - just the edge numbers for each range as I'm just trying to bracket the production numbers for each model.
Thanks !
Ian
If at first you don't succeed, just get a bigger hammer !
I know someone else who has a 1968 Cobra with a VIN T50012381. These two numbers probably don't reflect critical information, but every little bit helps. Finally, I contacted one man I know with a 69 T500 and asked for his VIN, and contacted a couple of other '68 Cobra owners and hope they are willing to share their VINS, too...
1968 Suzuki T500 Cobra
1970 Suzuki T500 Mark III [rebuild project]
1970 Kawasaki 500 Mach III - H1
1975 Kawasaki 750 Mach IV - H2
1970 Yamaha R5 350
1984 Yamaha RZ350L [acquired September 2015]
ericsattic wrote:Finally, I contacted one man I know with a 69 T500 and asked for his VIN, and contacted a couple of other '68 Cobra owners and hope they are willing to share their VINS, too...
Thank you !
Ian
If at first you don't succeed, just get a bigger hammer !
ericsattic wrote:I know someone else who has a 1968 Cobra with a VIN T50012381.
Looks like they just parted this one out on Ebay. Shame too as it was a nice machine overall based on the parts he sold. Looks like he made just shy of $2,500 on the parts he auctioned.
There is a so-called 1969 T500 "half roller" on ebay right now with a VIN Number of 21010; unfortunately this number falls right in the middle the 1969 numbers bracket set forth in an earlier post in this thread - so it doen't ad much to the bracket info.
The auction includes photos of the frame id plate and engine case numbers. Pretty stripped down but if someone has parts unique to the 69 (e.g., tank) and other T500 parts it looks like a reasonable place to start as its a matching numbers bike and it includes the headlight, guages, handlbars, etc... Heck, the $350 asking price could probably be more than justified just by the guages, headlamp, original signals, handlebars.
1968 Suzuki T500 Cobra
1970 Suzuki T500 Mark III [rebuild project]
1970 Kawasaki 500 Mach III - H1
1975 Kawasaki 750 Mach IV - H2
1970 Yamaha R5 350
1984 Yamaha RZ350L [acquired September 2015]
ericsattic wrote:There is a so-called 1969 T500 "half roller" on ebay right now with a VIN Number of 21010; unfortunately this number falls right in the middle the 1969 numbers bracket set forth in an earlier post in this thread - so it doen't ad much to the bracket info.
The auction includes photos of the frame id plate and engine case numbers. Pretty stripped down but if someone has parts unique to the 69 (e.g., tank) and other T500 parts it looks like a reasonable place to start as its a matching numbers bike and it includes the headlight, guages, handlbars, etc... Heck, the $350 asking price could probably be more than justified just by the guages, headlamp, original signals, handlebars.
It does have the 69 specific handle bars and the listing says it has a title so two things in it's favor. 7,440 miles doesn't seem like enough for it to be stripped down like that does it? Shame really....
ericsattic wrote:There is a so-called 1969 T500 "half roller" on ebay right now with a VIN Number of 21010; unfortunately this number falls right in the middle the 1969 numbers bracket set forth in an earlier post in this thread - so it doen't ad much to the bracket info.
The auction includes photos of the frame id plate and engine case numbers. Pretty stripped down but if someone has parts unique to the 69 (e.g., tank) and other T500 parts it looks like a reasonable place to start as its a matching numbers bike and it includes the headlight, guages, handlbars, etc... Heck, the $350 asking price could probably be more than justified just by the guages, headlamp, original signals, handlebars.
It does have the 69 specific handle bars and the listing says it has a title so two things in it's favor. 7,440 miles doesn't seem like enough for it to be stripped down like that does it? Shame really....
Jim
Jim, I understand your point of view and in many ways agree with your thoughts relating to "parting out" these bikes. We do not know the story here but it would be interesting to hear it because the 69 model does seem quite rare (sure would like to get more information on the frame numbers so we would know how many were produced). Let's hope the buyer of this "half-roller" has a nice seat, gas tank, oil tank, side cover, guage, fenders, signals, etc... for a 69 sitting on a shelf in the garage! I try to view every bike that's parted out as a way for other bikes to come back to life... long live the T500s!
1968 Suzuki T500 Cobra
1970 Suzuki T500 Mark III [rebuild project]
1970 Kawasaki 500 Mach III - H1
1975 Kawasaki 750 Mach IV - H2
1970 Yamaha R5 350
1984 Yamaha RZ350L [acquired September 2015]
I have some additional information from Australia regarding VIN numbers. I got this information from a very reputable source: the now FORMER owner of Badge Replicas (he told me he sold the business but the buyer still operates the same web page). Anyway, he told me his personal 1968 Cobra has a VIN of 15044 - that is one of the highest numbers we have seen so far.
He also told me his friend has a 67 and its VIN is 11905. I sent a message back asking why he says it's a 67 and gave him information regarding the wheelbase measurements ('67 500/Five = 52.7 inches VS. '68 Cobra = 55.9 inches). Don't know if I will get the information about its wheelbase, but it could be the bike was built and sold in 67 - and thus titled / registered as a 67. But, if it's wheelbase is 55.9 inches then based on what we know it's probably a 68 model. Also note Ian's VIN noted above is lower at 10332 and it's clearly a 68 because of its wheelbase length. He said he has another friend with a Cobra so we shall see if additional information materializes. Other people I sent messages to have not responded, probably not wanting to publicize their VINs...
Finally, I have an official Suzuki letter I should scan and post here - it was published right after the December 1967 Cycle World test of the "Suzuki 500." Interestingly it says they made the following changes to the "500/FIVE" apparently as a DIRECT RESULT OF the road tests made by Cycle World (exact wording):
Wheelbase - changed from 52.7 to 55.9
Rear Tire - changed from 3.50-18 to 4.00-18
Over-all Length is now 7' - 1-1/4"
No metion of ANY other changes (e.g., number of cylinder cooling fins...).
1968 Suzuki T500 Cobra
1970 Suzuki T500 Mark III [rebuild project]
1970 Kawasaki 500 Mach III - H1
1975 Kawasaki 750 Mach IV - H2
1970 Yamaha R5 350
1984 Yamaha RZ350L [acquired September 2015]
ericsattic wrote: I got this information from a very reputable source: the now FORMER owner of Badge Replicas (he told me he sold the business but the buyer still operates the same web page).
So - that would be Brian Cutler ?
ericsattic wrote:Anyway, he told me his personal 1968 Cobra has a VIN of 15044 - that is one of the highest numbers we have seen so far.
I've added it - thanks !
ericsattic wrote:Other people I sent messages to have not responded, probably not wanting to publicize their VINs...
Possibly - note that I have somewhat anonymised several of the responses, but each to their own Based on a lead from diamondj for example I've tried to contact Paul Miller several times now to attempt to confirm if he has a 500/5 and if so what the frame number is, but he has studiously ignored me
ericsattic wrote:Finally, I have an official Suzuki letter I should scan and post here - it was published right after the December 1967 Cycle World test of the "Suzuki 500." Interestingly it says they made the following changes to the "500/FIVE" apparently as a DIRECT RESULT OF the road tests made by Cycle World (exact wording):
Please do - appreciated ! On a related topic - the whole 10 fin and 11 fin thing seems to be one of those self perpetuating urban myths may have started with a Cycle World writer who couldn't count.
Ian
If at first you don't succeed, just get a bigger hammer !
oldjapanesebikes wrote:Possibly - note that I have somewhat anonymised several of the responses, but each to their own Based on a lead from diamondj for example I've tried to contact Paul Miller several times now to attempt to confirm if he has a 500/5 and if so what the frame number is, but he has studiously ignored me
On a related topic - the whole 10 fin and 11 fin thing seems to be one of those self perpetuating urban myths may have started with a Cycle World writer who couldn't count.
Paul is a tough guy to get on the phone and I don't think I've ever had an email conversation with him. The year he had the short swing-arm 500/5 at Mid-O, I was there with Zook-e (Eric), Mowgli (Eugene), and TBrock (Todd). They are all board members but only Zook-e and I are on here regularly. Sadly, I suspect we both have a case of CRS (can't remember stuff) when it comes to this bike's VIN. I meant to circle back with a camera that day but got side tracked and Paul had left when I did get back to his spot in the swap meet. I can always try to talk to him about it at next year's Mid-Ohio but he's usually so busy selling that a five minute conversation takes about a half hour as he stops to help the paying customers - can't blame him there as this is how he pays the bills.
I have a guess on the 10 fin versus 11 fin deal. Maybe the journalist had a somewhat prepped bike with the cylinder milled a bit on top or maybe it had a thinner head gasket to give it a bit more kick? Squint a bit and look at the cylinder/head assembly. If the head were just a bit closer to the cylinder, that top fin could look like a part of the head. Or maybe there was no prep work and the journalist was working off notes he scribbled while trying to wrangle more seat time on the Cobra at the press junket track side. He may have written the fin count down wrong (or his 11 looked like a 10) and then he explained the fin count away later as he fleshed out the story back at the office as a production revision. Who knows what really happened some 43 years ago? All I know is I have been messing about with T500's for 17 years or so and I have not seen a 10 fin barrel yet. Doesn't mean they don't exist but with the interwebs making the world a smaller place on a daily basis it seems like one would have cropped up by now.
