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 Post subject: kickstarter conundrum
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Location: Lebanon
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Really confused about my kickstarter. If i tighten the case completely, it makes the kick starter lock in the down position, preventing the spring to swing the arm back up, so i have had to resort to loosening the side nuts close to the kickstarter just to get it to free itself.

Can anyone tell me why this is the case or has anyone had this experience?

MJ in Beirut


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:23 am 
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Yes I have. In my case it was insufficient spring pressure. I had to remove the cover and pretension it with more oomph by winding it round a bit more. On my bike there were no marks like shown in the manual so I had to guess which tooth of the spline to fit the arm on. I had initially guessed wrong. It took a couple of attempts to get it right.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:29 am 
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Another possibility is that you may have fitted a washer in the wrong place and something is not seated right causing it to bind


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:11 am 
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shouldn't there be a big washer on the OUTSIDE close to the casing?

I dont think i set the spring wrongly. I seem to remember doing a few times and making sure i got the number of turns right.

But is it true that you have to take the clutch off to do it, using the kickstarter lever itself? My memory is poor as its been a few years.

thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:23 am 
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Ramjam wrote:
shouldn't there be a big washer on the OUTSIDE close to the casing?

I dont think i set the spring wrongly. I seem to remember doing a few times and making sure i got the number of turns right.

But is it true that you have to take the clutch off to do it, using the kickstarter lever itself? My memory is poor as its been a few years.

thanks

Definitely no washer on the outside of the casing. Here is a parts diagram. This might help you
Image


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:49 am 
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what casing are you talking about? The crankcase? Or the clutch cover?
If you are talking about the crankcase halves. Then the reason could be that you misaligned the locating dowel on the bush. This would squash the bush and cause it to bind against the shaft

If you are talking about the clutch cover. I am guessing here, as I cannot remember with 100% certainty of their position. But I suggest that you check that the bolts (part no. 8 in the diagram) are not binding against the gear (part no.9). If you used the wrong bolts or a thicker than original washer it could cause this problem.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:21 am 
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Location: Galveston County, Tx.
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Bikes owned: '75 T500M since '93 Ridden it over 100,000 mi
Pics randomly picked off the Internet/ebay.....

Image

Image

We'll see.....like you were alluding to....this could be an 'uh-oh'. :( Let's hope it's just your second possible scenario.

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Last edited by dorT500 on Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:38 am 
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Is there not a smaller washer INSIDE where those to gears mesh?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:39 am 
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sportston wrote:
what casing are you talking about? The crankcase? Or the clutch cover?
If you are talking about the crankcase halves. Then the reason could be that you misaligned the locating dowel on the bush. This would squash the bush and cause it to bind against the shaft

If you are talking about the clutch cover. I am guessing here, as I cannot remember with 100% certainty of their position. But I suggest that you check that the bolts (part no. 8 in the diagram) are not binding against the gear (part no.9). If you used the wrong bolts or a thicker than original washer it could cause this problem.


I was talking about there the kickstarter cog reaches the inside of the crankcase, or clutch cover. Is there a washer in between there?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:30 am 
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Ramjam wrote:
I was talking about there the kickstarter cog reaches the inside of the crankcase, or clutch cover. Is there a washer in between there?

As you can see in the pics above the washer is beneath the spring on the outside of the crankcase, but inside the clutch cover.
What I meant was, which casing are you having to loosen the bolts to enable the shaft to turn? Are you loosening the bolts that hold the crankcase halves together? Or are you loosening the bolts that hold the clutch cover on?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:42 am 
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sportston wrote:
Ramjam wrote:
I was talking about there the kickstarter cog reaches the inside of the crankcase, or clutch cover. Is there a washer in between there?

As you can see in the pics above the washer is beneath the spring on the outside of the crankcase, but inside the clutch cover.
What I meant was, which casing are you having to loosen the bolts to enable the shaft to turn? Are you loosening the bolts that hold the crankcase halves together? Or are you loosening the bolts that hold the clutch cover on?


Clutch


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:28 am 
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Then can we assume from your line of questioning that you have inserted an unnecessary washer between the kickstart cog and the clutch cover?
If so, ditch the spare washer and you should have a kickstart that works. It would raise another question though. Where did the spare washer come from? Was it supposed to go somewhere else?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Location: Galveston County, Tx.
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Bikes owned: '75 T500M since '93 Ridden it over 100,000 mi
I'm wondering...with the clutch cover off, will the kickstart shaft in question slide in and out... just a bit... (ever so slight stretching and relaxation of shafts main return spring on other end of shaft) AS EASILY as the fellow in this video (at 0:40) can move his? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5Cnj1CwxVM"

It may help to determine if the shaft could be somehow be in a bind just inside of the crankcase as suggested by 'sportston' earlier.....one of a few possibilities.

Just a thought.

Not much more to see in the following blog but this is where the above video came from... http://moto-dude.com/gt380_repairs.htm"



Also, that 'mystery' conical washer that was accidentally left out during engine assembly......the one shown in that other thread....I'm assuming it was put back between the two flat thrush washers. It looks to me (parts fiche) that is needed for correct alignment of that kick starter idle gear to the kickstarter driven gear.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:14 am 
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sportston wrote:
Then can we assume from your line of questioning that you have inserted an unnecessary washer between the kickstart cog and the clutch cover?
If so, ditch the spare washer and you should have a kickstart that works. It would raise another question though. Where did the spare washer come from? Was it supposed to go somewhere else?

Exactly. But maybe my mind's playing tricks on me. For sure, that washer was there before at some point. But just last weekend i had the case off and i didn't recall seeing it. Will have it off soon and settle my curiosity. but yes, if it's there, where did it come from? Behind the clutch assembly? Or one of the other cogs?
Yikes


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:45 am 
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Ramjam wrote:
sportston wrote:
Then can we assume from your line of questioning that you have inserted an unnecessary washer between the kickstart cog and the clutch cover?
If so, ditch the spare washer and you should have a kickstart that works. It would raise another question though. Where did the spare washer come from? Was it supposed to go somewhere else?

Exactly. But maybe my mind's playing tricks on me. For sure, that washer was there before at some point. But just last weekend i had the case off and i didn't recall seeing it. Will have it off soon and settle my curiosity. but yes, if it's there, where did it come from? Behind the clutch assembly? Or one of the other cogs?
Yikes



UPDATE
Sportson was bang on with his hunch. In fact i HAD placed incorrectly a washer on the outside of the cog. Soon as i whiped it off, kiskstarter works well. Problem now is where did it come from ??? Oh bugger.


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