Adding extra base gasket and bumping compression on GT750

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JoostGT
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Suzuki 2-Strokes: GT750 GSX750ES

Adding extra base gasket and bumping compression on GT750

Post by JoostGT »

I've rudely copied this from another 2 stroke board after not getting any responses except 1 telling me to go here ;)

Hello,

I'm currently rebuilding my GT750MAB engine and I don't have the funds/time to go all out with this build (spacer plate/porting etc..) but would still like to get the most out of the stock configuration. So by adding an extra base gasket I'll get some extra timing in transfer and exhaust but I will need to shave the thickness of the gasket off the head or cilinder. But since I'll be shaving off material anyway, how much could/should I remove to gain some compression? I currently have a cruizinimage 1,5mm old style headgasket and about 0,6mm deck height, so should I remove 0,6+0,4+base gasket thickness=about 1,5mm from the head?

Thank you, regards,
Joost vd Wiel
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tz375
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Re: Adding extra base gasket and bumping compression on GT75

Post by tz375 »

Two gaskets are not a good way to go. If no spacer, raise (2.0- 3.0mm all the same) and widen the exhaust ports to 48mm. Skim the bottom of the barrels just enough to remove any damage or scores, cuts and scrapes. Take 0.5mm off the top of the block and another 1.5mm off the head.

Se how that works. The head can always be removed and more machined off later. Check cold cranking compression. Aim for 150 PSI.
JoostGT
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Re: Adding extra base gasket and bumping compression on GT75

Post by JoostGT »

Wow thanks for your complete answer!

I think it's easier for me to gain access to an angled pneumatic drill than to find a spacer plate, so I might just open up the ports like you said. I do not touch the intake ports right? Since it's already a later cylinder the intake timing is fine as it is? The ,5 off the cylinder is to reduce (or actually eliminate) the deck height and the 1,5mm off the head is to bump compression (I know it doesn't really matter where you take it off since there is no squish, but for my understanding) Did you take in consideration the thick, old style headgasket I will be using or should I go for the thinner OEM gasket?
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tz375
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Re: Adding extra base gasket and bumping compression on GT75

Post by tz375 »

If you have a thin gasket use it - Athena seem to be thick. If compression is too high, detonation comes to visit and mice eat holes in pistons. Make sure that the gasket has 71-72mm bores. Most are up around the 75-76mm size and they encourage detonation in that gap. If you have a spare cylinder head, you could get it machine to take inserts like the ones that VHM sell for race bikes or weld it up and machine a different shape and squish band. Cometic can make you a custom gasket with the right size holes and not too expensive.

Billy Alvarsson's Bimotion software is a good source for head designs and port dimensions. http://www.bimotion.se" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Correct on inlets. They are too low already - BUT the floor typically has a terrible bump/ramp at the liner that hurts flow. A spacer is great because you can clean up the inlet port floors and still have the right port timing. Spacers are available from COMETIC gasket in the US and if you have problems with getting them to ship, I have a couple in stock. I'll have to check the thickness though.

My motor has cleaned up inlets with very short bridge, stock transfers, ported (cleaned up) crankcases, raised and widened inlet ports, and high compression stock shape head, and it's close to 80 HP on stock BS40 carbs. That's a lot of work but not much different to stock. With a spacer and good ports you can get closer to 100 with good individual pipes.

Pipes are the key to performance. Pipe designs not only change the amount of power but the shape of the power curve. The classic example of that were J&R which had a reputation for hitting hard at 4500 and being all done by 6,000. When I entered the J&R dimensions into MOTA simulation software, it showed that same thing. JEMCo, Allspeed and Bassani pipes had very different curves. On teh street I like the Strader 3 into 1. It doesn't make as much power but it sounds great and is really light.
JoostGT
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Re: Adding extra base gasket and bumping compression on GT75

Post by JoostGT »

I actually had a read through almost all topics on this forum I could find about porting the GT, but couldn't find any conclusive answer to decking the head and/or cylinder. Must say that most information I found was from you, so thank you for that :)

Cometic doesn't seem to be available here in the Netherlands, I've contacted the supplier direct and through multiple stores but never got a response. I would really like a Cometic headgasket to get the bores right like you mentioned, using the stock headgasket with 75mm bores is definitely not what I would like, but may be my only option. Getting the head re-done by for instance VHM is above my budget right now, me doing work is very cheap so no problems there, but with the crank being as bad as it is means there is no money left for fun stuff.

What width should the exhaust port be stock? My current port map shows a exhaust port width which is already at 48mm but that's arc length, so if you mean 48mm in a straight line that might throw it off.

I actually purchased exhaust software a while ago, it was on offer and thought "why not?". Would be interesting to see the pipes designed by this software compare to let's say a J&R or Allspeed. Maybe you could have a look at it with your professional software?

I almost feel bad for asking all these questions, it's just that I don't get the chance to talk to anyone else about these things!
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tz375
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Re: Adding extra base gasket and bumping compression on GT75

Post by tz375 »

Crank is THE most important part, so get that right first. Was in Gunnar that did his own crank? I don't remember, but there are people closer than the US who do crank work. EBOS in Malmo, Sweden may be able to help, and there have to be people in the Netherlands where most of the two stroke genius seems to come from. Of course there are companies in the UK too. I was thinking more in terms of individuals who might be able to do it more cost effectively.

I don't think I have any Cometic head gaskets in stock but I'll check for you.

Another possibility is to make a copper gasket. You could buy one and save a lot of time or make one and save some cash. They are not very expensive. If you know anyone there with a water jet, it may be possible for you to develop the plot and have some cut locally at a reasonable cost.

All the cheap pipe design software seems to be worth what you pay for it. I'd be happy to run your pipe numbers through MOTA and compare them to other pipes on the same porting baseline. No worries.

Back to that spacer. My bike uses an A barrel, no spacer and mild porting and it's fine.

VHM is outside my budget too, but you can do the same thing if you know someone with a machine shop that can do it as a project for little or no cost. VHM parts are really nice though and help me to envision what's possible. The trick is to work out how to incorporate the ideas at much lower cost. :lol:
JoostGT
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Re: Adding extra base gasket and bumping compression on GT75

Post by JoostGT »

I'm going to keep the barrel stock for the time being and only skim the head 1,5mm, this will allow me to allocate more funds for the crank and allow me doing a proper rebuild so that I have a strong base to work from. In the future (perhaps next winter) I'll see about adding a spacer plate, a nice headgasket and a set of pipes.

Ás for my pipe software, I'll have to make a new port map of my cylinder since I lost my last one.. I'll post my results here when I get any :)
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dyrberg123
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Re: Adding extra base gasket and bumping compression on GT75

Post by dyrberg123 »

Greetings from Denmark

Isn't 1,5mm skimmed from the head too much? What compression ratio are you getting then if i may ask?
If it's not broken - don't fix it. Why not?
srech77
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Re: Adding extra base gasket and bumping compression on GT75

Post by srech77 »

dyrberg123 wrote:Greetings from Denmark

Isn't 1,5mm skimmed from the head too much? What compression ratio are you getting then if i may ask?
Bump for an answer to this questions ... I'm also curious about the compression rise. Thanks -
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