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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:43 am 
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On the street

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:33 am
Posts: 20
Country: United States
Bikes owned: Gs1000g gs850g ds80 tc185
Hello all, im brandon i live in Florida. I recently purchased a t500 engine that will be getting a rebuild. I post in the performance section because i want to know what some of the basic performance go to's are for this engine. All i have is a complete engine no frame no carbs no exhaust. The top end was seized and is currently soaking in oil. Im also a member of thegsresources under the same user name


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:46 am 
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On the street

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:33 am
Posts: 20
Country: United States
Bikes owned: Gs1000g gs850g ds80 tc185
Image
Image
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:59 pm 
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To the on ramp
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Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:32 pm
Posts: 303
Location: Pisgah Forest, N.C. USA
Country: USA
Bikes owned: GT500 T500 GT750
Welcome! I started out last year at this time with exactly what you have! Set a budget for starters.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:43 pm 
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Expert racer

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:38 pm
Posts: 1395
Location: New Hampshire
Country: USA
Bikes owned: Suz, Yam, Honda, Kaw.
Here is a factory mode that will give a few more HP and a satisfying mid range to redline feel.

Use the earlier cylinders. They have no cast aluminum intake divider which I think yours has because you have the aluminum plenum bolted to the intake side of cylinders (if how it came factory)

The earlier cylinder aluminum casting is wide open right up until you hit the cast liner. The intake port is lower as well giving a longer open duration.

Periodicals praised the early T500 for its engine performance. 73 and up it was criticized as being significantly de-tuned.

_________________
Current Bikes
74 GT250 (T350 upgrade),
76 GT250 (T350 upgrade),
71 T350,
70 T350,
74 GT380,
75 T500,
73 GT550,
75 GT750,
72 Yamaha DS7 (R5 upgrade),
77 Yamaha RD400,


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:55 pm 
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On the street

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:33 am
Posts: 20
Country: United States
Bikes owned: Gs1000g gs850g ds80 tc185
Budget haha that'll never happen for me lol.. just kidding haha.. im more of a take a little longer and save for the more expensive parts "sometimes". im just gonna take it slow and not dump tons into it at a time, not too worried about over all price just gonna take longer to get there


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:02 pm 
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On the street

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:33 am
Posts: 20
Country: United States
Bikes owned: Gs1000g gs850g ds80 tc185
Yeah it has the split intake ports, what about the ignition.. my points are rusted shut.. can i go electronic? Or are points plenty for a mild street engine?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:21 am 
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Road race school

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:37 am
Posts: 873
Location: Trowbridge UK
Country: UK
Bikes owned: T500R, SV1000S, TS125, Seeley T500
Hi TBB,

You have the basic lump of T500 before you, that's a good start. You are in for a full strip down and re-build judging by the fact the pistons (rings) have rusted in the barrels. So lets start and see how much of your hard earned cash we can spend :lol: : (at UK prices anyway)

1. Vapour blasting the stripped engine - $120
2. Rebore with new pistons - $400 - $500
3. Rebuild crank, likely to need seals, main bearings, big ends, small ends - $800 (hopefully new rods are not needed, add $300 - $500 if you do.
4. Full gasket set - $100
5. New points - $50 or $300 - $800 if you go with electronic ign.
7. New plugs, oil, sundries $250

All the above are estimated of course, so you could easily put + or - $1000 depending upon what you find after the engine is stripped. Gear box, clutch etc. are likely to be in good nick, but it looks like those are 1200cc g/box oil type cases so it will need the oil dam mod to the cases (if you are unlucky the lack of this modification could mean damaged 4th & 5th gears)

So, a total somewhere in the region of $2500 - $3000 for a total re-build. Might be done cheaper (re-using exisiting parts, if in good enough condition). More likely to see more of your cash though. You still need carbs, pipes and a chassis of course. Not to scare you off but my Seeley T500 race bike, built from a bare frame,has seen me off to the tune of $15,000 +. Using a std. frame/wheels/forks would be a lot cheaper and you can see some stunning examples in various posts.

For a road bike you do not need the porting opened out to "Daytona" spec. My #1 race engine's porting is virtually std, although gas flowed and nicely blended. With 34mm Mikuni VM carbs, pipes, centre plug heads it puts out 52 bhp/44 ft/lbs torque at the rear wheel. More than enough (it has won races) for a cracking reasonably well behaved road machine.

Good luck, playing with classic bikes is great fun but does not come cheaply :lol:

Cheers Geoff


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:08 pm 
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On the street

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:33 am
Posts: 20
Country: United States
Bikes owned: Gs1000g gs850g ds80 tc185
Frame will be 1 off (my best freind is a frame builder)
He will also be building pipes. Thats roughly $1000 usd i am planning on the mikuni vm34 as you used as for engine modding not sure.. i know that we had thrown around ideas of how much power i was gonna want and 50 at the tire is about all i need. If my cylinders are pitted too much i will replace them with an early set the bottom end shift into all gears fine but since i have yet to un lock the pistons yet i dont know how thats gonna turn out i know the kick start is messed up so that will need minding.. but over all its not going to be an extremely over the top build so it wont cost that much unless theres something i absolutely have to have.. this bike will get a thrashing almost every day so it probably will be just below show quality


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:33 pm 
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Road race school

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:37 am
Posts: 873
Location: Trowbridge UK
Country: UK
Bikes owned: T500R, SV1000S, TS125, Seeley T500
Hi TBB,

I guess I was getting a bit carried away on the engine work, it's not my cash I was spending after all :lol: . You won't know what lurks within the cases until you get them split, and you plan from there. Contructing your own frame sounds pretty cool, are you planning a replica (such as my Seeley frame) or something original ?.

Cheers Geoff


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:08 pm 
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On the street

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:33 am
Posts: 20
Country: United States
Bikes owned: Gs1000g gs850g ds80 tc185
Haha yeah its alright, probably going to be closely mimicing an rd350 frame not identical but i like them so. Forks will be Harley sportster since the aftermarket is just obnoxiously abundant and i have a set. I want drums front and rear for sure. The same guy whos building my frame Aj happens to have the gt750 front drum so im trying work something out for that the rims will be skinnys front and rear to keep with the old school but im going with polished aluminum to keep weight down. The frame will be chromoly also to keep weight down. Im hoping for sub 300lbs with an empty tank. Now ive never heard of a seely frame if you have pictures of it together and apart id like to see them. Because im not 100% on building an rd style frame


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:19 pm 
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Road race school

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:37 am
Posts: 873
Location: Trowbridge UK
Country: UK
Bikes owned: T500R, SV1000S, TS125, Seeley T500
Hi TBB,

The GT 750 4 leading shoe is highly sought after in the classic racing world, they go for very hot prices, good brake when sorted. I would go for a disc set-up though, they are much better. I use flanged alloy rims on my racer. WM3/2.15 x 18 front and WM4/2.5 x 18 rear. You don't need massively wide rubber, although it does look good, narrower equals better handling on this type of bike.

Here is a link to my Seeley T500 build album on flickr. Old school in terms of slower steering etc, but handles like a silken dream 8) https://www.flickr.com/photos/zunspec/albums/72157631643417466

Starting with an open canvas you have a load of options :up:

Cheers Geoff


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:25 pm 
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Expert racer

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:38 pm
Posts: 1395
Location: New Hampshire
Country: USA
Bikes owned: Suz, Yam, Honda, Kaw.
Thebrandonbeezy wrote:
My #1 race engine's porting is virtually std, although gas flowed and nicely blended. With 34mm Mikuni VM carbs, pipes, centre plug heads it puts out 52 bhp/44 ft/lbs torque at the rear wheel. More than enough


"...Porting virtually standard". What do you mean exactly. are these the early cylinders? You changed nothing?
"nicely blended". Are you talking about smoothing the sharp kind between carb mount angle versus intake port angle... and /or matching to a larger 34mm bore?
"...centre plug heads " Are these the custom squish designed heads for the T500 versus stock dome (I think you mentioned this before but forgot $$$$)
"Chambers" I run jemcos which look like the T500 Suz performance bulletin: did not measure yet but looks similar

So which of these simple mods got you to 52 bhp at the wheel the most. That's decent if really no porting? So it should be a good street bike as well? The heads maybe 5 hp? Is the pipe tuned for peek power? The carb maybe 2 hp?

I would like 52 H... wonder what a stock early T500 was at the wheel 37-38 hp?

_________________
Current Bikes
74 GT250 (T350 upgrade),
76 GT250 (T350 upgrade),
71 T350,
70 T350,
74 GT380,
75 T500,
73 GT550,
75 GT750,
72 Yamaha DS7 (R5 upgrade),
77 Yamaha RD400,


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:26 pm 
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Expert racer

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:38 pm
Posts: 1395
Location: New Hampshire
Country: USA
Bikes owned: Suz, Yam, Honda, Kaw.
Zunspec4 wrote:
My #1 race engine's porting is virtually std, although gas flowed and nicely blended. With 34mm Mikuni VM carbs, pipes, centre plug heads it puts out 52 bhp/44 ft/lbs torque at the rear wheel. More than enough


"...Porting virtually standard". What do you mean exactly. are these the early cylinders? You changed nothing?
"nicely blended". Are you talking about smoothing the sharp kink between carb mount angle versus intake port angle... and /or matching to a larger 34mm bore?
"...centre plug heads " Are these the custom squish designed heads for the T500 versus stock dome (I think you mentioned this before but forgot $$$$)
"Chambers" I run jemcos which look like the T500 Suz performance bulletin: did not measure (should someday) yet but looks similar

So which of these mods got you to 52 bhp at the wheel the most. At what RPM (7250?). That's decent if really no porting? So it should be a good street bike as well?... unless the pipe tuned for peek power? The carb maybe 2 hp? The heads maybe 5 hp?

I would like 52 hp. wonder what a stock early T500 was at the wheel 37-38 hp?

Nice job!

_________________
Current Bikes
74 GT250 (T350 upgrade),
76 GT250 (T350 upgrade),
71 T350,
70 T350,
74 GT380,
75 T500,
73 GT550,
75 GT750,
72 Yamaha DS7 (R5 upgrade),
77 Yamaha RD400,


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:13 pm 
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Moto GP
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 5941
Location: Illinois
Careful assembly and blue printing pays dividends and "almost stock" means whatever the engine builder wants it to mean. My GT750 is almost stock and just cleaned up and it makes around 80HP at very modest revs. In my case teh ports were widened and raised but by very little compared to a full race motor.

In Geoff's case it probably means something similar. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:56 am 
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Road race school

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:37 am
Posts: 873
Location: Trowbridge UK
Country: UK
Bikes owned: T500R, SV1000S, TS125, Seeley T500
Spot on tz375 - That is basically what has been done to engine #1. The Ex port has been raised by only 1mm, all other ports are of std. dimensions. I put together a table of various race porting (mostly garnered from Muzza's web site)

Image

Basic H and W dimensions do not tell the whole story though. Port shape to be kind to the rings, gas flowing the transfer tunnels, matching barrels and base gasket to the cases, combustion chamber volume (and hence comp ratio), squish etc. all come into it. Just for info all my barrels are of the later type with the bridged inlet port.

Vintageman:

I have custom made (sourced from Pete Odell) centre plug heads, These then received further attention from my tuner to closely match volumes and given a "torroidal" shape around the plug entrance (they were pretty good as bought, but it's the detail that adds all those fractions of performance). The pipes were made by Tony Green Racing, a legendary 2-st pipe builder in the UK, and are optimised for Engine #2 which will have a more adventerous "tuned & ported" barrels. 34mm carbs with short intake flanges/rubbers matched to the inlet port. 70.5mm Wossner pistons. Here is the dyno sheet:

Image

We were unable to dial out that dip in torque at 6500 rpm, darn it :lol:

OK, I know the big end went south in a big way racing at Cadwell Park :oops: (root cause still undetermined) but engine #1 with pipes/carbs/heads would have made a stonking road engine and should have been good for many thousands of road miles.

Cheers Geoff


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