Todd, more than that if you check some of the other message boards about the subject. A changing of the guard is in progress for a better accountability where everything goes and why.
On another note please PM me.
Eric
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Contacts for fiberglass fairings and seats
The dude 330-762-GLAS
Nationals Fiberglass
517 Beacon Street
Akron, Ohio
44311
Nationals Fiberglass
517 Beacon Street
Akron, Ohio
44311
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Yes, there are small marks for cutouts on the fender and you can either cut them out or sand them out to your preference.
As for the fairing, since it fits a CR750 Honda, a small amount of trimming on the top side panel and the rear of the side panel toward the foot controls will be needed to fit the individual rider.
As for the fairing, since it fits a CR750 Honda, a small amount of trimming on the top side panel and the rear of the side panel toward the foot controls will be needed to fit the individual rider.
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Tire size
Not that anybody cares, but I run a 2.15 rim front and rear, with a 90/90 front avon and a 120 rear. The 120 is actually too large for the T500 and a 110 would be perfect, but my supplier doesn't carry the 110 Avon in a race compound.
Shannon is exactly right. You guys are overthinking this and will very likely show up with a bunch of over-tired T500s. Unless somebody spends a whole lot of dough and does a whole lot of research, most of these bikes will not be making even 60 HP and slapping fat tires on bikes that were not designed for them is only going to hinder performance and handling. Rotating weight, remember?
As for the Avons, they are cheaper and easier to get than the Dunlops, I've even bought them on Ebay, just make sure you are getting the race compound. Tucker Rocker also carries them, so if you've got a dealer nearby, you can save yourself on shipping. I've raced both Dunlops and Avons. If I had to choose, I would probably go with the Dunlops, but I've used the Avons with much success and will probably do so again next season.
For the new racers, take the extra money you would have put into the Dunlops and put that towards the best set of leathers you can get, I will only wear one piece, and make sure it has body armor. Nobody is going to be pushing the limits with those Avons in their third race, so grip won't even be an issue.
Kris Larrivee
Shannon is exactly right. You guys are overthinking this and will very likely show up with a bunch of over-tired T500s. Unless somebody spends a whole lot of dough and does a whole lot of research, most of these bikes will not be making even 60 HP and slapping fat tires on bikes that were not designed for them is only going to hinder performance and handling. Rotating weight, remember?
As for the Avons, they are cheaper and easier to get than the Dunlops, I've even bought them on Ebay, just make sure you are getting the race compound. Tucker Rocker also carries them, so if you've got a dealer nearby, you can save yourself on shipping. I've raced both Dunlops and Avons. If I had to choose, I would probably go with the Dunlops, but I've used the Avons with much success and will probably do so again next season.
For the new racers, take the extra money you would have put into the Dunlops and put that towards the best set of leathers you can get, I will only wear one piece, and make sure it has body armor. Nobody is going to be pushing the limits with those Avons in their third race, so grip won't even be an issue.
Kris Larrivee
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Racing T500s. For what it's worth.
While it's kind of neat to think of a bunch of T500s on the grid at Mid-Ohio next season, I also have some reservations and a few observations gained from first hand racing experience.
First the reservations. The thought of eight to ten new backmarkers with unproven skill on untested bikes scares the crap out of me. I am all for growing vintage racing, as long as it can be done safely. Don't kid yourselves, this IS motorcycle racing, and you run the risk of being seriously injured or even killed while doing this. I personally know people who have lost limbs and died while vintage racing, all within the last few years. The risks are real, and it does hurt being spit down the road. Not to be a wet blanket, but it needed to be said.
If you plan on racing, then plan on falling. You will hit the ground at some point, and as your ass grinds away because the bargain basement, neon green, no padding leathers you bought came apart, you will wish you had spent a bit more on the gear. You don't have to spend a 1000 bucks, but $99 close-out leathers will buy you exactly that much protection. And get a real back protector, just because that foam pad in the back of the leathers you bought will pass tech, doesn't mean it will do much when you get high-sided. Boots too, how many broken ankles have I seen because a rider wasn't wearing a vertebrae type boot? Don't cheap out on the gloves either, get something with some armor, and a gauntlet fastened by velcro, unless you don't mind if your fingers become ground beef.
About racing a T500:
After several years of racing a T500, I think I have gained enough knowledge to make a few observations. First and foremost, the bike is not particularly competitive in any class that it qualifies for in the US and Canada. The RDs and H1s that run in AHRMA are vastly superior performance-wise compared to a mildly built T500. Don't blow the bank account building a super hot Titan and expect to set the F500 class on it's ear. I have tried it and many of you know my struggles.
I once asked a gentleman (who will remain nameless) who owns a mind bogglingly fast 500 Suzuki how one would go about building something like that. You know what he told me? "Dig a big hole in your backyard, kid, then split the engine cases. Take everything out of the cases and toss it in that hole along with your frame and bury it never to be seen again. Now take the engine cases and start from there." He reckoned you could build a 500 similar to his for about 10 grand. Overstating the facts, maybe, but it gives you an idea of how seriously some people take vintage racing.
Not to say that you can't have a hoot racing a T500 without selling a kidney, of course! That's really the point. And being that the 500 is much less high-strung than the other two-strokes it only increases the fun factor for new riders. Easy to maintain and repair, plentiful parts (mostly) also make it a good choice for new racers.
But don't be tempted to over-engineer the bike while building it. I've raced with a stock unbraced swingarm which everyone told me was dangerous, I raced with a T250 swingarm that everyone told me was too short, and I didn't have problems with either. I raced with the stock frame, and while it wasn't great, it also wasn't terrible either. I tried fat tires and found the bike handled much better with skinny ones, and went faster too. I bought a super expensive racing ignition and when that failed I raced with points and a battery, and I think the bike ran better with points! I ran with a dual disc front brake because everyone said that I needed more brakes, but then I found I could do stoppies coming into corners (not fun), so I went back to a single disc. The biggest improvement I ever made, though, was tossing the rock hard shocks I started with and buying a set of Works Shocks, worth every penny, and a difference even the most in-experienced rider will benefit from and be able to notice.
Keep the motor as stock as possible when starting out, it makes plenty of power as is, and you will have your hands full just getting around the corners! I don't care how good you think you are on the street, the track is a whole new world, and a new rider does not need a peaky, lightswitch powerband. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, I took some other website's info as gospel only to find they were dead wrong. Just because they did it that way 40 years ago, doesn't mean it was correct.
That's my say on the matter. If you don't know me and wonder who the hell is this preachy asshole and where does he get off telling me this crap, suffice it to say that I have been around. I have the scars, holed pistons and trophies to prove it. I don't suppose it will have any effect, I know I didn't listen much when I started, instead choosing to learn things the hard way. Take it with a grain of salt, or maybe glean something from it, either way I will see you on the track, (two times anyways, once when I pass you, twice when I lap you! LOL!).
Kris Larrivee
VRRA & AHRMA #473
First the reservations. The thought of eight to ten new backmarkers with unproven skill on untested bikes scares the crap out of me. I am all for growing vintage racing, as long as it can be done safely. Don't kid yourselves, this IS motorcycle racing, and you run the risk of being seriously injured or even killed while doing this. I personally know people who have lost limbs and died while vintage racing, all within the last few years. The risks are real, and it does hurt being spit down the road. Not to be a wet blanket, but it needed to be said.
If you plan on racing, then plan on falling. You will hit the ground at some point, and as your ass grinds away because the bargain basement, neon green, no padding leathers you bought came apart, you will wish you had spent a bit more on the gear. You don't have to spend a 1000 bucks, but $99 close-out leathers will buy you exactly that much protection. And get a real back protector, just because that foam pad in the back of the leathers you bought will pass tech, doesn't mean it will do much when you get high-sided. Boots too, how many broken ankles have I seen because a rider wasn't wearing a vertebrae type boot? Don't cheap out on the gloves either, get something with some armor, and a gauntlet fastened by velcro, unless you don't mind if your fingers become ground beef.
About racing a T500:
After several years of racing a T500, I think I have gained enough knowledge to make a few observations. First and foremost, the bike is not particularly competitive in any class that it qualifies for in the US and Canada. The RDs and H1s that run in AHRMA are vastly superior performance-wise compared to a mildly built T500. Don't blow the bank account building a super hot Titan and expect to set the F500 class on it's ear. I have tried it and many of you know my struggles.
I once asked a gentleman (who will remain nameless) who owns a mind bogglingly fast 500 Suzuki how one would go about building something like that. You know what he told me? "Dig a big hole in your backyard, kid, then split the engine cases. Take everything out of the cases and toss it in that hole along with your frame and bury it never to be seen again. Now take the engine cases and start from there." He reckoned you could build a 500 similar to his for about 10 grand. Overstating the facts, maybe, but it gives you an idea of how seriously some people take vintage racing.
Not to say that you can't have a hoot racing a T500 without selling a kidney, of course! That's really the point. And being that the 500 is much less high-strung than the other two-strokes it only increases the fun factor for new riders. Easy to maintain and repair, plentiful parts (mostly) also make it a good choice for new racers.
But don't be tempted to over-engineer the bike while building it. I've raced with a stock unbraced swingarm which everyone told me was dangerous, I raced with a T250 swingarm that everyone told me was too short, and I didn't have problems with either. I raced with the stock frame, and while it wasn't great, it also wasn't terrible either. I tried fat tires and found the bike handled much better with skinny ones, and went faster too. I bought a super expensive racing ignition and when that failed I raced with points and a battery, and I think the bike ran better with points! I ran with a dual disc front brake because everyone said that I needed more brakes, but then I found I could do stoppies coming into corners (not fun), so I went back to a single disc. The biggest improvement I ever made, though, was tossing the rock hard shocks I started with and buying a set of Works Shocks, worth every penny, and a difference even the most in-experienced rider will benefit from and be able to notice.
Keep the motor as stock as possible when starting out, it makes plenty of power as is, and you will have your hands full just getting around the corners! I don't care how good you think you are on the street, the track is a whole new world, and a new rider does not need a peaky, lightswitch powerband. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, I took some other website's info as gospel only to find they were dead wrong. Just because they did it that way 40 years ago, doesn't mean it was correct.
That's my say on the matter. If you don't know me and wonder who the hell is this preachy asshole and where does he get off telling me this crap, suffice it to say that I have been around. I have the scars, holed pistons and trophies to prove it. I don't suppose it will have any effect, I know I didn't listen much when I started, instead choosing to learn things the hard way. Take it with a grain of salt, or maybe glean something from it, either way I will see you on the track, (two times anyways, once when I pass you, twice when I lap you! LOL!).
Kris Larrivee
VRRA & AHRMA #473
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Another couple of points to look at. First, if you like to go fast there is no place like a track, clear run-off and an ambulance right there. And usually a couple of guys that would be glad to help learn lines. And most crashes are self induced. Riders riding too hard right out the gate. They try to keep up with the faster riders and don't pay attention to what they are doing. It's best to read twist of the wrist or simular racing books, do your homework first.
Another thing, is that the more Titans out there, the more fun. A lot of guys that haven't raced think winning is the end all. But it the racing that is the end all. You duke it out the whole race with another guy or two, (even for 2nd to last place) and you won't care who won the race, you will be giddy.
And like any other racing, there will be super talented guys that are blinding fast, or big buck guys that will out spend you. Let them play, you play with the other guys out to have fun and not willing to lose life and limb and bankroll for a 5 dollar trophy.
And Lane hit the nail on the head, handling first, then HP. When you are at a point you are wfo just about everywhere on the track, THEN go for more HP. You don't get a lot of track time with a broken motor all the time. Along with Krash, GET GOOD GEAR!
And just do it. It's a rush that can't be explained!!!!!
Another thing, is that the more Titans out there, the more fun. A lot of guys that haven't raced think winning is the end all. But it the racing that is the end all. You duke it out the whole race with another guy or two, (even for 2nd to last place) and you won't care who won the race, you will be giddy.
And like any other racing, there will be super talented guys that are blinding fast, or big buck guys that will out spend you. Let them play, you play with the other guys out to have fun and not willing to lose life and limb and bankroll for a 5 dollar trophy.
And Lane hit the nail on the head, handling first, then HP. When you are at a point you are wfo just about everywhere on the track, THEN go for more HP. You don't get a lot of track time with a broken motor all the time. Along with Krash, GET GOOD GEAR!
And just do it. It's a rush that can't be explained!!!!!
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Re: Racing T500s. For what it's worth.
Krash wrote:While it's kind of neat to think of a bunch of T500s on the grid at Mid-Ohio next season, I also have some reservations and a few observations gained from first hand racing experience.
First the reservations. The thought of eight to ten new backmarkers with unproven skill on untested bikes scares the crap out of me. I am all for growing vintage racing, as long as it can be done safely. Don't kid yourselves, this IS motorcycle racing, and you run the risk of being seriously injured or even killed while doing this. I personally know people who have lost limbs and died while vintage racing, all within the last few years. The risks are real, and it does hurt being spit down the road. Not to be a wet blanket, but it needed to be said.
Kris Larrivee
VRRA & AHRMA #473
This is the only part that I really have any comment on. All of us started out in the faster race classes, including Krash. When we started, there was no Historic Production class. And when there was one, it was run with faster classes with experienced riders.
I have raced with beginner riders out their first time and have gotten beaten by these first time riders. One being Todd Brockmeyer, he beat me (second place) by over a third of the track and it was his first race. The other was Keith Sutton on a bike with a stock motor at Mid-Ohio.
While there are risks in this endeavor. It is much safer than riding on the street and as Moo says, racing for second to the last place can be exilirating. Holding your line and being predictible to the one passing you is essential.
I have come up on people who have been racing for years and they are all over the track. I only pass if I know I can make a safe one. If not then I will wait till I can. It is only a race for the fun and enjoyment of racing a bike you like.
Yes, T500s aren't as competitive as the RDs but they are 90% closer to what was raced in the day than the RD. The T500 was the only road based motorcycle that ever won a GP.
The races that Krash has, most of his incidents at are in Canada where they put many diversified machinery on the track together. And with the riding season so short the experience level is far different than here in the States
Gentlemen, go out and race, be safe and have a good time. I look forward to seeing you on the track.
Eric Kalamaja
AHRMA #581
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Re: Racing T500s. For what it's worth.
Hmmm..... Being on the same track as Krash under race conditions. Now that is enough to make me rethink this whole idea! 
Krash is a nice enough person off the bike but he is VERY competitive while racing! Plus, he's already trash talking us!!!!:
I gotta get a race bike done just so I can trash talk back now!!!!
Seriously though, good advice from several folks that have been there already!
Hey Krash, did you buy your Works shocks specifically for your race bike or did you adapt some dirt bike shocks? Either way, did you go with stock length shocks or something a bit longer?
Thanks,
Jim
Krash is a nice enough person off the bike but he is VERY competitive while racing! Plus, he's already trash talking us!!!!: DAMN!Krash wrote:Take it with a grain of salt, or maybe glean something from it, either way I will see you on the track, (two times anyways, once when I pass you, twice when I lap you! LOL!).
I gotta get a race bike done just so I can trash talk back now!!!! Seriously though, good advice from several folks that have been there already!
Hey Krash, did you buy your Works shocks specifically for your race bike or did you adapt some dirt bike shocks? Either way, did you go with stock length shocks or something a bit longer?
Thanks,
Jim
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Hi Jim.
I had the shocks specifically made for the bike and my weight. I had to give them specifications like swingarm length, eye to eye length, swingarm length and some other measurements. I stuck with the 12.75" eye to eye, but if I did it again I would go with 13". I found that having shocks that would actually travel, and even have the proper 1" static sag when I sat on it meant that I had to jam the fork tubes up in the triple clamps quite a bit to get it to steer the way I wanted. This didn't cause any clearance issues for me, (at least I haven't touched anything down yet!). I owe that to Zooke's perfect set up of the t500 cradle in the RD frame, which allows the pipes to tuck in beautifully. My elbow would almost be on the ground before I touched any hard bits!
My only problem with Works was the length of time it took to get the shocks. They told me a two week turnaround, it was closer to a month. I bitched so much they sent it to me 2nd day air for free! Other than that the customer service has been good and I've even had them give me free parts from time to time for other projects.
And the first time you ride the bike, especially if you have been using some cheapie shocks, the transformation is astounding. Worth all $400 of it. Of course if you've got $1000 to spend, there's always Ohlins....
Kris
I had the shocks specifically made for the bike and my weight. I had to give them specifications like swingarm length, eye to eye length, swingarm length and some other measurements. I stuck with the 12.75" eye to eye, but if I did it again I would go with 13". I found that having shocks that would actually travel, and even have the proper 1" static sag when I sat on it meant that I had to jam the fork tubes up in the triple clamps quite a bit to get it to steer the way I wanted. This didn't cause any clearance issues for me, (at least I haven't touched anything down yet!). I owe that to Zooke's perfect set up of the t500 cradle in the RD frame, which allows the pipes to tuck in beautifully. My elbow would almost be on the ground before I touched any hard bits!
My only problem with Works was the length of time it took to get the shocks. They told me a two week turnaround, it was closer to a month. I bitched so much they sent it to me 2nd day air for free! Other than that the customer service has been good and I've even had them give me free parts from time to time for other projects.
And the first time you ride the bike, especially if you have been using some cheapie shocks, the transformation is astounding. Worth all $400 of it. Of course if you've got $1000 to spend, there's always Ohlins....
Kris
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Okay folks, the page is up and it needs filled so send those biographys in.
http://vancouver.globat.com/~sundialmot ... GRAPHY.htm
http://vancouver.globat.com/~sundialmot ... GRAPHY.htm
