TS400 blowing headlight bulbs

[1972TS400]

Hey guys, I recently was able to finish putting my 1972 TS400 back together. The bike did not have a headlight on it when I purchased it so I picked up a headlight that uses a H4 bulb. I purchased a 35/25w bulb with it. While driving around with the switch on low, the bulb blew out. I then had it on it on high and it eventually blew out the high beam. After that I bought an 18/18w bulb on Ebay and while riding it the other day, I noticed the low beam blew out again. I haven't switched to the high beam yet, but I'm guessing that will blow too. Would it make sense to upgrade to a rectifier from Oregon Motorcycle Parts with a built in rectifier (VRRPM3S) and a gel or AGM battery? Or is there something I can check to see what's causing this? The engine is stock with a nos wiring harness and a 12 volt conventional battery. My current rectifier uses 5 wires: red, black/white, and 3 yellow wires. Thanks.

[jabcb]

The 72 TS400 likely does not have a voltage regulator.

Instead it uses the battery as a voltage regulator.
As a result the voltage can get quite high at times -- too high for a gel or AGM battery & probably too high for a halogen H4 headlight bulb.

This system works ok when you have good conventional battery & good bulbs of the correct wattage.

The VRRPM3 regulator/rectifier is for a 3-phase permanent-magnet alternator.
Your bike probably has a single-phase alternator with a lighting coil & would need a different regular/rectifier.

[1972TS400]

Thanks for the reply! The reason I thought I could use the rectifier with a built in regulator and then an AGM or gel battery was from a thread you posted in:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9235" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not sure if I read something wrong, but you suggested the guys to use the same rectifier/regulator on a 1972 and 1973 TS400. I also thought using a lower wattage bulb would be better, but I'm wrong on that one! So I'm guessing the H4 can't handle the voltage. Would that rectifier/regular cure that problem?

This is also my wiring harness: http://suzukits.informe.com/gallery/TS2 ... m.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jabcb]

Thanks for the reply! The reason I thought I could use the rectifier with a built in regulator and then an AGM or gel battery was from a thread you posted in:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9235" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not sure if I read something wrong, but you suggested the guys to use the same rectifier/regulator on a 1972 and 1973 TS400. I also thought using a lower wattage bulb would be better, but I'm wrong on that one! So I'm guessing the H4 can't handle the voltage. Would that rectifier/regular cure that problem?

This is also my wiring harness: http://suzukits.informe.com/gallery/TS2 ... m.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Per the other thread, the 76/77 TS400 are 6V.

The 72/73 TS400 are 12V.
From the wiring diagram it looks like they have a 3-phase permanent magnet alternator.
And one of the phases is switched off to reduce output when the lights are off.

In preparing to respond to your post, I took a look at the online parts diagram for your TS400.
It looks like the bike has a 2-phase permanent magnet alternator.
The third phase is used by PEI ignition & is not part of the alternator.

So at this point its clear that the R225a rectifier will work on the 72/73 TS400.
I am not 100% certain that the VRRPM3 or VRRPM3S regulator/rectifier are appropriate for the 72/73 TS400.

If you want to use the regulator/rectifier, then you probably should ask Oregon Motorcycle Parts.
Their website suggests that you ask if you are not sure.

From the other thread, it looks like forum member, scot511, installed the regulator/rectifier.
If so, then he might have some additional insight.


Sorry for the confusion.

[1972TS400]

I'm just glad there are people like you that are way smarter than me! And thanks for taking the time to look into it. I thought you were talking to the person that started the thread when you suggested him using the VRRPM3S and he had a 1973 TS400, so that's where I was confused. I will email Oregon Motorcycle Parts and see what they think. Hopefully they have something so I don't have to hunt down one of those pricey headlights! I also sent scot511 a question about gearing. If he responds I will to ask him about using the VRRPM3S with a gel or AGM battery. Thanks again jabcb!

[1972TS400]

I talked with Tony at Oregon Motorcycle Parts and he did not have an answer to fix this issue. His quote: "Unfortunately this problem doesn't have an easy fix. The TS400 runs the lights directly off AC from the lighting coil and it's unregulated. I don't have a regulator that will work for this system...". I emailed a few snowmobile lighting companies, but no one had an answer. I guess I'm left looking for a stock headlight. The $300+ is going to hurt.

I did hear from Scot511 and I asked him about what he used. I'm waiting to hear back from him on my question about using a rectifier/regulator from Oregon Motorcycle Parts.

[jabcb]

There are two very different wiring diagrams for the TS400.
The first step is to confirm which layout you actually have.

If you have the bike switched on + the lights switched on, will the headlight light up if the engine is NOT running?

(Am a street biker & don't know much about the TS-series.)

[1972TS400]

With the bike switched on, light switch on and the bike not running, the headlight will turn on.

I also just tested the headlight wires and with the bike running and revving up, it shows 18+ volts. So like you said, I'm guessing the H4 bulb cannot handle all that juice?

[jabcb]

That confirms you have the early wiring diagram that is shown in your link, and that your headlight runs on DC.

I wasn't expecting 18V at high rpm.
Based on the street bikes, I would have expected around 16V.

The battery acts as a voltage regulator -- maybe it isn't up to the task.
Are you using a conventional battery that is the stock size?
Does it have the proper level of battery acid?
Is it in good shape & does it hold a charge?
How old is it?

Do you have the taillight & instrument light hooked up & working?
They add more load & reduce peak voltage.

What voltage did you get at 2k rpm?

[jabcb]

Might have two solutions for you.
Neither solution is anything like what would be done today -- they were workable fixes back in the day.

---------------------------------------

The GT250B has a single phase alternator & an AC voltage regulator.
The GT500B has a PEI+alternator layout that is similar to the early TS400. It has an AC voltage regulator.

The GS750B has a 3-phase alternator & an AC voltage regulator.
The AC voltage regulator connects to only one of the three phases.

The Electrex RG7-30 is an adjustable AC voltage regulator.
http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/RG7-30.html

---------------------------------------
Some Suzukis have a resistance wire that reduces the voltage at the headlight.

See service bulletin GT-24. Its for early GT250s that do not have a voltage regulator.
http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/techb ... 022-26.pdf
The bulletin recommends using resistance wire part # 37131-18999.
Its NLA but is available via eBay:
NOS for $10 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Suzuki- ... 0857080749
used for $5.35 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-37131-18 ... 1217850367

Interestingly, GT-24 refers to service bulletin TS-11, but I don't know of a source for the TS-series service bulletin.

[1972TS400]

That confirms you have the early wiring diagram that is shown in your link, and that your headlight runs on DC.

I wasn't expecting 18V at high rpm.
Based on the street bikes, I would have expected around 16V.

The battery acts as a voltage regulator -- maybe it isn't up to the task.
Are you using a conventional battery that is the stock size?
Does it have the proper level of battery acid?
Is it in good shape & does it hold a charge?
How old is it?

Do you have the taillight & instrument light hooked up & working?
They add more load & reduce peak voltage.

What voltage did you get at 2k rpm?

I just bought a conventional battery 3/31/2014. It is a "high performance" version of the standard battery. Power Sonic Super Sport Series CB5L-B battery. It is in good shape and it does hold a charge. I will check the level of the acid tonight.

The only lights I have are the headlight, Trail Tech Vapor gauge, an LED taillight with integrated turn signals (an LED flasher to make them flash normal) and some standard bulb short stalk front turn signals that are only on when I'm turning. Are you thinking my bike needs more of a load on the system to keep things in check and kind of act as a regulator?

I don't have a tach, so I will make a close guess tonight and see what it says.

I did have one place tell me that my bike has to have a regulator, otherwise it will boil the battery.

[1972TS400]

Might have two solutions for you.
Neither solution is anything like what would be done today -- they were workable fixes back in the day.

---------------------------------------

The GT250B has a single phase alternator & an AC voltage regulator.
The GT500B has a PEI+alternator layout that is similar to the early TS400. It has an AC voltage regulator.

The GS750B has a 3-phase alternator & an AC voltage regulator.
The AC voltage regulator connects to only one of the three phases.

The Electrex RG7-30 is an adjustable AC voltage regulator.
http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/RG7-30.html

---------------------------------------
Some Suzukis have a resistance wire that reduces the voltage at the headlight.

See service bulletin GT-24. Its for early GT250s that do not have a voltage regulator.
http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/techb ... 022-26.pdf
The bulletin recommends using resistance wire part # 37131-18999.
Its NLA but is available via eBay:
NOS for $10 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Suzuki- ... 0857080749
used for $5.35 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-37131-18 ... 1217850367

Interestingly, GT-24 refers to service bulletin TS-11, but I don't know of a source for the TS-series service bulletin.

Wow, nice work! I went ahead and ordered the resistance wire #37171-18999. Hopefully this helps. I will let you know what happens when it gets here and I install it. Thanks again for all your help.

And if worse comes to worse, couldn't I find any headlight from that era that does not use a H4 bulb?

[jabcb]

These bikes have a balanced electrical system. The alternator was selected to be just adequate for the stock lighting.
Doing that allowed them to use the battery as the voltage regulator.

Most of the guys working at bike shops are probably too young to know that these vintage bikes have functioned ok for decades without voltage regulators.
The down side is that you can not use an AGM, gel or maintenance free battery.
They are correct about the battery water "boiling off".
That's why you have to add water & need the little hose that vents the battery to the bottom of your bike.

You reduced the electrical load by something like 10W.
So, another option worth considering is to upgrade the H4 headlight to 45/45W.

The 45/45W H4 headlight will get you back to an electrical load that's about stock.
I would try that first. Then check the voltage at idle, ~ 2k rpm & high rpm.

Also worth noting: PEI is a totally separate electrical system & having too high wattage headlight will not affect how your bike runs.

[1972TS400]

Makes sense to me. I will order a H4 45/45w bulb. Are you thinking I won't need to use the resistance wire if I do go with the 45/45w bulb?

Also, I am an idiot and checked the voltage at the headlight connector, without a headlight connected. I'm guessing this was the incorrect way to do it. I bet you're right about it being around 16V. I will hook the headlight up tonight and recheck everything.

[1972TS400]

I talked with scot511 and he was able to use the VRRPM3S with a gel battery without any problems. He said he never gets above 14.6 volts at any RPM. I guess that will be my next plan of attack. I will post the results. Thanks again jabcb!