TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

All to do with wiring, charging or just trying to figure out whats gone wrong.

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tz375
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by tz375 »

You are looking for a 4 pin or NO (normally Open) relay 30 amp or 40 amp - whatever is available from Autozone or PEP boys etc. Plus you also want to get a socket with 4 spade connectors to wire it with. There are a bunch of them on ebay at around a couple of bucks each. At the auto store they will probably be 5-10 bucks a pop.

If all they have is a 5 pin NC/NO, you can also use that and leave one terminal empty/unused.

In that nice drawing, one of the wires shown as coming from the switch goes to ground.

Image
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by TJCOOL »

tz375 wrote:You are looking for a 4 pin or NO (normally Open) relay 30 amp or 40 amp - whatever is available from Autozone or PEP boys etc. Plus you also want to get a socket with 4 spade connectors to wire it with. There are a bunch of them on ebay at around a couple of bucks each. At the auto store they will probably be 5-10 bucks a pop.

If all they have is a 5 pin NC/NO, you can also use that and leave one terminal empty/unused.

In that nice drawing, one of the wires shown as coming from the switch goes to ground.

Image

and this will take more charge for starting the bike therefore quick more efficient starts?

thats a great drawing ..gonna download that too..nice and well explained for entry level technicians...this picture should be titled

RELAY CONFIGURATION FOR DUMMIES

thank you again..

and I guess i will need to feed connections off the various devices and attach to the relay? I think I figured that out from teh green labels in the diagram...this should be very interesting to do....
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Alan H
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Alan H »

Sorry to be picky, but the relay contacts need to be between the battery and coil - the coils are currently fed from battery positive, so the power will go battery +, FUSE, relay contacts, coil(s), points and earth, which completes the circuit as the battery - is earthed.
The circuit drawn will fuse (or would if there was one) as the power will go from battery +, through the points to earth and short circuit. Remember that there's only one wire to the points, the other side goes to earth.
Always put a fuse as close as possible to the battery (or power source, which is why there's a fuse in a domestic plug) so that protects the circuit with no danger of anything shorting out and overheating or setting on fire.


Just noticed the second and third pics. My comments were regarding the first one!
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by TJCOOL »

Alan H wrote:Sorry to be picky, but the relay contacts need to be between the battery and coil - the coils are currently fed from battery positive, so the power will go battery +, FUSE, relay contacts, coil(s), points and earth, which completes the circuit as the battery - is earthed.
The circuit drawn will fuse (or would if there was one) as the power will go from battery +, through the points to earth and short circuit. Remember that there's only one wire to the points, the other side goes to earth.
Always put a fuse as close as possible to the battery (or power source, which is why there's a fuse in a domestic plug) so that protects the circuit with no danger of anything shorting out and overheating or setting on fire.


Just noticed the second and third pics. My comments were regarding the first one!
is this the type of configuration I'm looking for;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2Pack-Car-12V-D ... 0846289869
Last edited by TJCOOL on Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alan H
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Alan H »

Yup. Just one point though, if the horn button only has one wire to it, so that the contact is earthed when you press it, then power from the ignition switch should go direct to 86, and 85 should go to the horn and then to the horn button.
It all depends what circuit you intend wiring.
Really, if you are in doubt, it would be better to have someone show you first.
The problem with electric is that you can't see it or smell it, but it sure lets you know if there's something wrong!
Like a woman, it doesn't forget to let you know painfully when you mess up and is never forgiving of mistakes.
And yes, in my almost 50 years in the electrical trade, I have had a few shocks.
Usually by trusting others that 'the power is off'.
I learned very quickly to make sure that my first rule was and always has been 'He who switches off the power puts HIS fingers in first'.
TJCOOL wrote: is this the type of configuration I'm looking for;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2Pack-Car-12V-D ... 0846289869
Yes, and use something like this with a correct fuse as close to the battery as possible if you are running a new wire to 86.
CLICK HERE
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by TJCOOL »

Alan H wrote:Yup. Just one point though, if the horn button only has one wire to it, so that the contact is earthed when you press it, then power from the ignition switch should go direct to 86, and 85 should go to the horn and then to the horn button.
It all depends what circuit you intend wiring.
Really, if you are in doubt, it would be better to have someone show you first.
The problem with electric is that you can't see it or smell it, but it sure lets you know if there's something wrong!
Like a woman, it doesn't forget to let you know painfully when you mess up and is never forgiving of mistakes.
And yes, in my almost 50 years in the electrical trade, I have had a few shocks.
Usually by trusting others that 'the power is off'.
I learned very quickly to make sure that my first rule was and always has been 'He who switches off the power puts HIS fingers in first'.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2Pack-Car-12V-D ... 0846289869

this may better...it's closer anyway...i personally don't know any electricians or any one I would consider competent, trustworthy when it comes to this type of thing....I will study it more..this may be more complicated than first thought..all the more reason I want it!

an extra fuse? There is one already on the bike..close to the battery..if I look at the wiring diagram..is this extra fuse to be redundant?
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Alan H »

The idea of the relay is to carry a heavier current than a switch may be 'happy' with or is rated at, so best way is to run a thicker wire from battery to relay (ALWAYS via a fuse at the feed end) so that if the wire gets trapped between, say the tank and earth, it wouldn't be able to get hot or set anything on fire before the fuse blows.
Fire near a petrol tank is best avoided.
If you get a piece of wire and fasten it securely to one terminal of a battery while it's on a work bench, then - WHILE WEARING GLOVES AND EYE PROTECTION - put the other end of the wire on the other battery terminal and hold it there for a second or two - NO MORE! - You'll see how hot it gets and how quickly.
No flammable items nearby of course.
Do not do it if there's anyone about who is of a nervous disposition or doesn't like swearing as there will be sparks and strange words uttered loudly.
Please don't post the words used on here as it is a family friendly site and the moderators wouldn't be very pleased.
They may p1$$ themselves laughing, however.
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Zunspec4 »

Here you JT, I re-drew the diagram so even a Yorkshireman can make sense of it :D . The basic message is that the Primary Coil gets it's power directly from the battery using heavy duty (and hence lower resistance) wire. With lower voltage losses you get more of your nominal battery voltage across the LT coil (typically 3 - 4 ohms (ish)) more current equals a stronger magnetic field and when the points open that translates to a healthier spark.

Image
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tz375
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by tz375 »

Geoff, getting closer, but still no cigar. :)

One side of the switch is power and goes to #86 and the other side goes to ground/earth on pin 85, not back to the switch or into the old circuit and it really should have a fuse between the battery and terminal 30.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Zunspec4 »

Hi tz,

I was not trying to provide a step by step procedure, with Suzuki colour coded wiring and details of Relay terminal numbers. I was attempting to show the principle of a direct feed to the LT coil/points circuit, although the addition of a separate fuse should have been shown I will agree. Quite difficult to expalain in diagrams and words what would take 2 minutes and a sketch pad to explain verbally :D . A std. set-up in good condition should provide the sparks you need anyway.

Cheers Geoff
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by TJCOOL »

Zunspec4 wrote:Here you JT, I re-drew the diagram so even a Yorkshireman can make sense of it :D . The basic message is that the Primary Coil gets it's power directly from the battery using heavy duty (and hence lower resistance) wire. With lower voltage losses you get more of your nominal battery voltage across the LT coil (typically 3 - 4 ohms (ish)) more current equals a stronger magnetic field and when the points open that translates to a healthier spark.

Image
don't you be upsetting the earnshaw Yorkshire gods like that..you'll be struck down by a big lightning bolt... :mrgreen:
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Alan H »

And there isn't a capacitor correctly marked in μF in the circuit or even the cross sectional area or spring tension of the points, degree and ramp of the points cam or battery capacity. :roll:

You just can't get accurate information nowadays! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Zunspec4 »

I'm from the wilds of Suffolk, TJ. Me with my six fingers and toes have no worries about jessies from Yorkshire :lol:

I know what you mean about accurate info, Alan. I had re-created the wiring diagram with appropriate modifications (and in colour), sourced all the necessary connectors, wiring codes etc. but then had a PC crash and lost it all :D

Cheers Geoff
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by TJCOOL »

Zunspec4 wrote:I'm from the wilds of Suffolk, TJ. Me with my six fingers and toes have no worries about jessies from Yorkshire :lol:

I know what you mean about accurate info, Alan. I had re-created the wiring diagram with appropriate modifications (and in colour), sourced all the necessary connectors, wiring codes etc. but then had a PC crash and lost it all :D

Cheers Geoff

jessie's?..i thought they were a bunch of Mary's?
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Alan H »

They only thing that we are is disciples, as Yorkshire is God's County as everyone should know. :up:
All Christian prayers from Yorkshire go by local calls. 8)
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
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