TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

All to do with wiring, charging or just trying to figure out whats gone wrong.

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TJCOOL
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TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by TJCOOL »

read an article and had it explained to me why to and why not to use resistor plugs and caps..basically my choice but would like to know if anyone out there actually does use resisitorless (is this a word?) plugs and caps and what their experiences have been?

tj
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by rngdng »

I use plain non-resistor caps. I can't tell any difference.



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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Alan H »

Non resistor caps and plugs.
I believe it makes a difference, and the starting is better on a 550 with non resistor caps than resistor type.
(I have one of each!) And new non resistor caps will be fitted this winter.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by akendall1966 »

It depends on the point of view, resistors are mainly there to suppress radio frequency noise, so while you may see no difference your neighbours may have a different view when thier TV picture breaks up when you start the bike. Modern vehicles with electronics systems can be interfered with too, so resistor caps or plugs tend to be the norm.

In a points based system it probably make little difference, you drop some voltage over the resistor but current is very small so Vdrop is a few volts from 15000 or so generated by the coil (less than 0.05%) anyone who say they notice a difference, its probably more wishful thinking than reality (sorry but that the physics of it).

What might be more important, adding resistance to the secondary coil by having both a resistor cap and resistor plug will increase the current draw on the primary coil, which on a electronic ignition could damage the switching transistors or less likely on points increase the arcing and so burn up the point a fraction quicker (particularly if your condenser is not great).

My advice would be: .... be the nice guy and fit either resistor cap or resistor plugs but not both, and leave the radio waves a little cleaner in you vicinity.

AK

PS - I use resistor caps in my T500 but it has electronic ignition.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by jabcb »

If you are trying to get just a little bit more out of your ignition system, then switch to fine-wire high performance spark plugs.
Like NGK B8EGV or NGK BR8EIX.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by TJCOOL »

so, one should go one way of the other.....I don't have TV (crap anyway) so maybe I should be considerate of my neighbours..guess there is no difference if one uses resistor plug and non resistor cap versus non resistor plug and resistor cap....like calling your uncle bob your fathers brother Robert..
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Alan H »

akendall1966 wrote:It depends on the point of view, resistors are mainly there to suppress radio frequency noise, so while you may see no difference your neighbours may have a different view when thier TV picture breaks up when you start the bike. Modern vehicles with electronics systems can be interfered with too, so resistor caps or plugs tend to be the norm.
Haha! I don't watch telly and the neighbours are on cable!
In a points based system it probably make little difference, you drop some voltage over the resistor but current is very small so Vdrop is a few volts from 15000 or so generated by the coil (less than 0.05%) anyone who say they notice a difference, its probably more wishful thinking than reality (sorry but that the physics of it).
Possibly, but it does start better!
What might be more important, adding resistance to the secondary coil by having both a resistor cap and resistor plug will increase the current draw on the primary coil, which on a electronic ignition could damage the switching transistors or less likely on points increase the arcing and so burn up the point a fraction quicker (particularly if your condenser is not great).
So, with both as non resistor types, the points 'might' last a week longer (or not.) :roll:
It could act on the capacitor and cause it to charge a little less so slightly altering the dwell of the spark (or maybe not.) :?
My advice would be: .... be the nice guy and fit either resistor cap or resistor plugs but not both, and leave the radio waves a little cleaner in you vicinity.
AK
PS - I use resistor caps in my T500 but it has electronic ignition.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by tz375 »

I use Iridium fine wire plugs which are resistor type and I recently swapped out the stock resistor caps for zero resistance caps. With OEM 40 year old coils and leads and a custom DYNA ignition it throws big fat blue sparks and starts first kick and runs clean up to and beyond the redline. And I have a relay on that circuit.

Last restomod I completed, I tried no relay and stock coils and points and the ignition was pitiful, so I threw on a Newtronics I had lying around and that perked it up a liittle.

You could use stock type plugs and resistor caps, but for best results, I recommend fitting a relay whatever way you chose.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Alan H »

I just fitted a Motobatt battery to the GT750 and starting (and running) are noticeably better, probably due to slightly higher battery voltage giving a better spark (which was noticeably weak originally.)
I reckon that a heavier (fused) cable from battery to coils via a relay where the current coils are, wiring wise, will improve it further.
Another winter project will be splitting all connectors, cleaning and lubricating with contact grease or similar will improve it further.
One or two local to me have gone the GT750/iridium way, but I'm still on the fence about that despite having 6 in the Santa Fé.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by TJCOOL »

don't laugh but I'm not sure what you mean by a relay..how would i put a relay on my circuit? I do plan on installing electronic ignition once i get the bike restored...this is my first restore so some things I don't understand...one must learn some how

tj
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tz375
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by tz375 »

I hear you. Let me try to explain until someone who can do a better job is available.

A relay is an electrical switch. One side is the "trigger" and with a very low current, it switches (connects) the heavy duty side. So that's 4 connections.

On the low power side, one side is ground and the other is connected to the ignition switch. The other side has two connections. One to the battery and one to the ignition.

Turn on the ignition and that activates the relay which allows full power to flow to the ignition system.

With a stock system power flows from battery to main switch to stop/run switch to the coils and that's lots of connections to lose power. With a relay, the switches carry a very light current to make teh connection and the heavy lifting is done by teh relay which is designed to vcarry a heavy current and OEM switches are not.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Alan H »

That description is so close it doesn't matter.
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by TJCOOL »

tz375 wrote:I hear you. Let me try to explain until someone who can do a better job is available.

A relay is an electrical switch. One side is the "trigger" and with a very low current, it switches (connects) the heavy duty side. So that's 4 connections.

On the low power side, one side is ground and the other is connected to the ignition switch. The other side has two connections. One to the battery and one to the ignition.

Turn on the ignition and that activates the relay which allows full power to flow to the ignition system.

With a stock system power flows from battery to main switch to stop/run switch to the coils and that's lots of connections to lose power. With a relay, the switches carry a very light current to make teh connection and the heavy lifting is done by teh relay which is designed to vcarry a heavy current and OEM switches are not.

ok..now how would I actually go about constructing one? What parts would i need and is it possible to have some detailed instructions someone like me could follow? This sounds like a very good idea..since the bike is striped down to the fiddley bits, now would be the time i guess

thanks

tj
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by Zunspec4 »

Here you go TJ. A simple circuit diagram. Power to the LT Coil is supplied directly from the battery via the relay, regular points remain in the circuit of course. You can get a suitable 12v relay from any Car/autoparts store.

Image

Cheers Geoff
Last edited by Zunspec4 on Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TO RESIST OR NOT RESIST?

Post by TJCOOL »

geoff

that's perfect..thank you very much..uhmm..electromagnetical or solid state and what voltage max?..i looked it up onsite..

tj
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