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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:09 am 
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On the street

Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:25 pm
Posts: 28
Country: Portugal
Bikes owned: GP125, GT380
Has anyone used the RR77 Regulator Rectifier as supplied by Electrex World on their GT380.
Alternatively can anyone recommend a reputable supplier.
I don't want to go through the same pain as with the unit supplied by Electrosport - too much voltage return at the battery.

Thanks in advance
Carlos


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:55 pm 
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Moto GP
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 6004
Location: Illinois
I have a couple of them on GT750s and they work great - BUT you need to tap into a strong 12v sensor wire or the system will overcharge. The wire in a stock loom/harness comes from the ignition switch and is long and with lots of connections and typically shows 11.5 or less volts, so the R/R causes the alternator to overcharge.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:14 am 
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World Superbike
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Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:50 am
Posts: 2157
Location: The Republic of South Yorkshire
Country: England
Bikes owned: GT550s GT750 GSX1400 and lots of spares
A couple of mods worth doing.
Run a pair of fused wires (2mm or 7/036 csa equivalent) direct from battery + to relays. Fit the relays near coils and regulator so that when the kill switch is operated, the relays come on and put battery voltage to coils and reg, rather than whatever voltage can work its way through the existing manky wiring connections and switches. Better starting and running, and the charging system will be a lot better too. Easy mod(s) that improve running. - Let someone who is competent electrically do the connections though!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:43 am 
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On the street

Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:25 pm
Posts: 28
Country: Portugal
Bikes owned: GP125, GT380
Hi tz375 & Alan H

I was under the impression that these aftermarket replacement parts were a simple plug and play ie. Remove the old at the connector and plug in the new. Surely the Regulator/Rectifier unit should regulate the voltage to a respectable +- 14 Volts at the battery - or is this wishful thinking on my part?

Alan
You say to fit the relays near the coils and regulator but the regulator will need plugging in behind the left side cover and surely the wires on the new unit are not long enough to reach the coils - would these need to be extended?

As it seems that certain mods are required for an aftermarket replacement unit can either of you please provide me with a wiring diagram/more detail/link of what is required to do so as not to be overcharging the system or potentially damaging other components.

Thanks
Carlos


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:51 am 
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World Superbike
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Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:50 am
Posts: 2157
Location: The Republic of South Yorkshire
Country: England
Bikes owned: GT550s GT750 GSX1400 and lots of spares
No it's not straightforward. Most of the charging problems are due to poor connections to the regulator so that it 'thinks' the battery voltage is low, then it sends more volts/current to the battery and fries it.
Some details here:
http://www.kettleclinic.co.uk/kcforum/v ... ade#p81276" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wiring wise, the standard wires that go to the coils and reg are connected to a relay coil, the other side of the relay coil goes to earth. This basically means that when you operate the kill switch on, the relays go click (on).
The other two terminals on the relays go to a fused wire from the battery and either the regulator (relay 1) or coils (relay 2) this means that when the kill switch is 'on', then there will be full battery voltage to;
A. the coils
B. the regulator

Circuit A means better starting and running as there will be a better spark.
Circuit B means better regulation as the regulator will 'see' a genuine battery voltage and not what's left after it has to work its way through several crappy multiplugs and sockets, switches and other bad connections.

I know that someone on here did a wiring diagram for these mods, but I can't find it, so if anyone else knows where it's hiding, please post a link.

The idea of an electronic regulator is good, but if the connections to it are poor, then it will only work as well as the old mechanical type, but will overcharge the battery much quicker, so first thing is to pull all the connections apart - from battery to ignition switch, kill switch and then to coils, lights, regulator, rectifier etc. and every earth connection - and clean them properly. You may find everything works just fine then and save yourself a load of money.
Remember that these connections are over 40 years old now and some will never have been touched since Mr. (Japanese guy on the production line) connected them together in the 70s.

If aftermarket wiring and parts like relays are fitted, then yes, wiring will need to be extended. For instance, I have put a direct eart from battery to frame, indicator relay, rectifier and regulator. Done neatly it looks as if it was done when the bike was new. I'll get some pics later - the ones on the computer aren't too clear!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Around the block

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:32 pm
Posts: 84
Country: Austria
Bikes owned: GT750
I have a electronic rectifier and regulator in my Bimota kettle as well, I currently cannot remember the exact type and maunfacturer, it is something with 77...
I have the opposite problem - I have very low voltage at the battery, max. 13,4V. I have a fully custom wiring loom, all high current +12V wires are very short and thick, incl. the sense wire to the rectifier.
Do you think my regulator voltage would increase if I reduce the voltage on the sense wire, for example with a resistor divider?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:17 pm 
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World Superbike
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Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:50 am
Posts: 2157
Location: The Republic of South Yorkshire
Country: England
Bikes owned: GT550s GT750 GSX1400 and lots of spares
Yes, but 13.4 volts is fine and should charge OK.
'Standard' 12v battery voltage will be about 12.6 - 12.8 volts at rest, so 13.4v is charging.
If you switch the lights on, the battery voltage will fall slightly and the charge will increase anyway.
If your battery voltage with engine running is always 13.4v, then that's a perfect system.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:59 pm 
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Moto GP
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 6004
Location: Illinois
Back up a little. The R?R is a straight plug and play, but it works better if you run a new 12v sense lead.

Relays are a good idea to get more power to ignition or lighting circuits. Not necessary for teh R/R upgrade - just a good idea. I usually fit one to the ignition circuit and one to each of the two headlamp circuits. You can use regular small(ish) auto type relays, but I prefer the sealed Panasonic micro relays and I usually get them from Eastern Beaver in japan.

https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec ... elays.html

or in the US

http://www.cycleterminal.com/accessory-relays.html


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:51 am 
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On the street

Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:25 pm
Posts: 28
Country: Portugal
Bikes owned: GP125, GT380
Thanks for all the valued input.
As I don't have many options I will purchase the R/R from Electrex and install as all I want is to take it for a ride as it has been standing for some time now.

I understand that the upgrades recommended are good but unfortunately will not be attempting any without a wiring diagram as my electrical skills and knowledge are not up to the same standards as tz375 and Alan H.

Once I have the R/R and have it installed I will post some more feedback.

Once again thank you for all the advice and feedback.

Carlos


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Moto GP
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 6004
Location: Illinois
Sounds like a plan. One thing you can do is to clean all the connections and switches to reduce voltage loss.

The R/R gets it's voltage reading from an orange wire. Unfortunately that same wire carries power to lights and ignition and horn and so on and by the time it gets back to the R/R it's lost some of those volts. There are many ways to fix that and if you want to know more, post after you get your new R/R set up and let's talk some more.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Around the block

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:32 pm
Posts: 84
Country: Austria
Bikes owned: GT750
Hi,
As alteady said, I have the problem of too low voltage out of my regulator/rectifier, a RG77 from Electroworld. I have 12,2V at the battery at idle with lights on, and it only goes up to 13,2 or so at high revs. Apparently my setup drains the battery when revs are low, since after my yesterdays heat cycels I was not able to start the bike.

I have an optimized wiring loom, with short and thick power wires. My ignition switch sits directly next to the battery and R/R in order to keep cable lengthes short.
I run the red R/R output directly to battery-plus. A second cable from plus of the battery goes to the ignition switch and the starter relais, via a fuse. The orange wire from the ignition switch (swicthed plus) feeds the orange voltage sense of the R/R. Total cable length from battery to switch to R/R sense is less than 30cm.

I did the following test today:
I disconnected the red R/R output from the battery, only kept the orange sense wire on. So the R/R had no load. Its output showed some 11V or so Volts at idle, and increased far beyond 14V when revving. Is this correct? I expected the R/R output to be regulated between 13,5V and 14,5V. In this test, the orange sense wire was a stable battery voltage.
I tesetd the alternator, all resistances are within specs, and with Yellow wires disconnected, only excitation current to the rotor, I get 15V AC between each pair of yellow at idle and over 25V at 2000 RPM

I want to add I use a 5Ah LiFePo4 battery, same as in some other bikes with no issue.

I have now ordered a RR77 from Electrex, to compare. Someone have ideas what could be wrong?

Best regards

Wolfgang


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:59 am 
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Around the block

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:32 pm
Posts: 84
Country: Austria
Bikes owned: GT750
Hi, if you have followed my posts you will remember I have suffered from too low charging voltage on my BIMOTA GT750. I was blaming the R/R from ELECTROWORLD, replaced it with a ELECTREXWORLD device with no difference, then I thought the problem might be my LiFePo4 battery.

Today I measured the stator windings again. Had 0,4 ohms between each of the 3 yellow wires, but interestingly also 0,3 Ohms between any yellow and ground. I had found no comment as to whether this is OK or a fault. Luckily, I have bone stock GT750 as well and did the same measurement for comparison. There was no connection (infinite resistance) between any yellow and ground.

So I had a closer look, and guess what I found:

Image

This small bolt was too long and touched the windings on the inside of the stator, so that they were grounded:

Image

Replaced it with a shorter bolt, and now have perfect charging voltage between 13,9V and 14,2V.
I am a happy man now, this issue has causes me sleepless nights


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:29 pm 
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Moto GP
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Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:32 pm
Posts: 3256
Location: southwestern Pennsylvania
Country: USA
Bikes owned: 69 T350 thru 75 GT750
Does the RR77 mount to the stock mounting points?

_________________
BAS (Bike Acquisition Syndrome) - too many bikes but have room for more

Suzuki:
GT750 2x75
GT550 72 project & 75
GT380 72
T500 73 project
T350 69, 71 & 72 project
T250 72
Honda 85 CB650SC & 86 CB700SC
09 Triumph Bonneville SE


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:06 pm 
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To the on ramp

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:35 pm
Posts: 430
Location: Wales
Country: WALES
Bikes owned: suzuki gt 550j
Good result Wolfgang! And excellent photos too....

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98 carb Blackbird and GT550j


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Around the block

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:32 pm
Posts: 84
Country: Austria
Bikes owned: GT750
jabcb wrote:
Does the RR77 mount to the stock mounting points?


I have no idea, I have a one-off custom frame so it does not matter


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