something to do over the holiday

Retro, Wild, Cafe, etc. The stuff only your imagination can come up with.

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dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

something to do over the holiday

Post by dollydog »

well, apart from drinking, playing santa and eating like a pig :D
here's the first mock-up. 3mm aluminium plate will be used as a pattern/template for the final 10mm thick plate. wish me luck :up:
cheers, dd.

mock-up:
Image
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
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jabcb
Moto GP
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Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:32 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: 69 T350 thru 75 GT750
Location: southwestern Pennsylvania

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by jabcb »

What are we looking at? What neato project are you envisioning?

Good luck & have fun. Whatever it is, it's way beyond my skill set.
BAS (Bike Acquisition Syndrome) - too many bikes but have room for more

Suzuki:
GT750 2x75
GT550 72 & 75
GT380 72
T500 69 project & 73 project
T350 69 & 71
Honda 85 CB650SC & 86 CB700SC
09 Triumph Bonneville SE
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tz375
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Location: Illinois

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by tz375 »

RG250 top end on a set of GT250 cases perhaps?

That will be quite a trick to get the RG crankcase porting to work on and older bottom end. They are interesting barrels for sure. Transmissions on RGs used to be a bit fragile IIRC but the handling was streets ahead of and RD Yamaha.
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jabcb
Moto GP
Posts: 4111
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:32 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: 69 T350 thru 75 GT750
Location: southwestern Pennsylvania

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by jabcb »

Looks like it could be a 76/77 GT250 crankcase.
BAS (Bike Acquisition Syndrome) - too many bikes but have room for more

Suzuki:
GT750 2x75
GT550 72 & 75
GT380 72
T500 69 project & 73 project
T350 69 & 71
Honda 85 CB650SC & 86 CB700SC
09 Triumph Bonneville SE
dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by dollydog »

jab, easy way to tell the difference between the 76/77 gt250 crankcases and these ramair cases are the oil feed bosses - just below the barrels you can see 3 of them, the other is tucked up in the right corner. the later cases have an oilfeed right in the middle, as the later centre main bearings are fed by the oilpump. on earlier ramairs the single central main bearing is fed direct from the gearbox, hence you get 4 symmetrical oil feed bosses :D
cheers, dd.
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
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jabcb
Moto GP
Posts: 4111
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:32 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: 69 T350 thru 75 GT750
Location: southwestern Pennsylvania

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by jabcb »

Yes. For 76 Suzuki switched transmission oil lubrication from the center main crank bearing to the right main. I was aware of that.

Was thinking it was a 76/77 crankcase based on the oil pump area. I wasn’t aware that the GT250s have a plate between the oil pump & crankcase.
Took a look at the online parts diagram. And the plate is the same for 73 thru 77 models.

The T500/GT500 has the same center main transmission oil layout. It looked so easy to screw that up with sealant when I was assembling the GT500 cafe build motor.
Using transmission oil for the right main avoids that issue.


Looks like a fun project. An early GT250 crankcase with water-cooled top end.
77 was the last year for Suzuki two stroke street bikes in the US. You have options for a lot more different fun projects in the UK.
BAS (Bike Acquisition Syndrome) - too many bikes but have room for more

Suzuki:
GT750 2x75
GT550 72 & 75
GT380 72
T500 69 project & 73 project
T350 69 & 71
Honda 85 CB650SC & 86 CB700SC
09 Triumph Bonneville SE
dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by dollydog »

sorry i haven't updated this thread for a few months, but boy have i been busy :D the first change was moving to plan 'b' and that was to take the rg250 top end off and put it away safely. after my mate sent me a load of photo's of his conversion and all the machining it took i sort of chickened out. he used a gt380 bottom end with rg250 top ends and it took him 5 years to finally get it to run. at my age i haven't got 5 years to spend, so i went for plan 'b'. still using the same 250 ramair bottom end but - say it quietly - a yamaha rd250lc top end. had the spigots under the barrels machined so they fitted in the gt top crankcase. threaded some 8mm aluminium round rod and filled the 8 fixing stud holes. then the difficult bit, drilling and threading the top crankcase to take the rd barrel studs. this worked perfectly, but it meant i had to cut the rd cylinder head in half. easy conversion on the aircooled as they are separate heads. anyway, the heads are now off to be faced, so i can weld a 3mm plate on the end of them. what about the thermostat and inlet/outlet for the coolant? all in order. i'll bring you that in the next post, with photo's :D
cheers, dd.
p.s. the waterpump is fitted under the engine and it's off an audi :up:
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by dollydog »

finally had confirmation off the bloke who's machining my cylinder heads. they'll be ready to pick up next tuesday. then they are off to the aluminium welder to get the side plates and inlet/outlet pipes welded on. i'll post some photo's then. in the meantime i've got the left side exhaust built and attached to the micron, but due to these bank holidays my 38mm exhaust bends haven't arrived, so i can't start the right side yet. but i'm getting there slowly. it's never taken me this long to build a bike from scratch. once the heads are sorted including squish gap, compression ratio etc, will give it a whirl and if it just fires, and there's no reason why it won't, i'll strip it all down again and fit the new crank, get the frame and swingarm powdercoated, crankcases aquablasted and probably a hundred other jobs before i rebuild it as a bike, not just a frame and engine. it's just taking soooooooooooooo long :D
cheers, dd.
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by dollydog »

to say this project is taking a long time is an understatement. well finally all the welding is finished on the cylinder heads and they are ready for the faces to be machined perfectly flat, as we don't know if the welding caused any warpage. i trial fitted them - third photo - just so i could finish the plumbing off. now it's strip down again and off for machining. once back, it's anneal the copper head gaskets, torque the head bolts down and give it a whirl :D
cheers, dd.

finished welding:
Image

fitted, ready for plumbing:
Image

trial fit and plumbing:
Image
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by dollydog »

sorry i had to go the yam top end route, but as i said in an earlier post the rg suzuki top end would entail so much machining, including the crankcase induction, whereas the yam top end just needed the barrel bolt holes filling and redrilling. normal carb, reeds, barrels feed and just so much easier and was supposed to be a lot quicker. heads off to be faced tomorrow, then the fun begins :D
cheers, dd.
p.s. with a bit of drilling and fitting an old pair of oil squirters in the underside of the barrels i can use the standard gt250 oil lines, which solved another problem :) :)
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
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Alan H
Moto GP
Posts: 2986
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:50 am
Country: England
Suzuki 2-Strokes: 4 x GT550s - J, M, A, B.
Location: The Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by Alan H »

Keep on keeping on Ade. Starting to look like you're starting the last lap of this project.
What could possibly go wrong?!?! :?
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
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jabcb
Moto GP
Posts: 4111
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:32 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: 69 T350 thru 75 GT750
Location: southwestern Pennsylvania

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by jabcb »

Interesting project & way beyond my skills.

Curious what the u-shaped tube between the intake boots is for.
BAS (Bike Acquisition Syndrome) - too many bikes but have room for more

Suzuki:
GT750 2x75
GT550 72 & 75
GT380 72
T500 69 project & 73 project
T350 69 & 71
Honda 85 CB650SC & 86 CB700SC
09 Triumph Bonneville SE
dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by dollydog »

sorry jab, i missed your post. the 'u' shaped tube is actually a balance pipe. when i get round to it i'm going to make a boost bottle to replace it :D
cheers, dd.
p.s. i didn't even know what a boost bottle was until i built my reed valve gt250. apparently it's a common yamaha thing :D
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: something to do over the holiday

Post by dollydog »

good grief, no update for 2 months. in the meantime the heads have been machined flat by my lovely little mate at fahron. on his advice i used standard dt250r pistons and he bored the barrels to suit. he also opened out the squish bands on the cylinder heads to 56mm. frame brackets for the radiator are now welded and just waiting on having the swingarm reamed out to take the needle roller conversion i've got. once that's done all the frame bits, stands etc will be off for powdercoating. did i mention the engine fired and sort of ran when i first tried it? so the engine is now stripped right down again, ready for aquablasting. then a good wash out and rebuild with new crank. finally seem to be getting somewhere :D
cheers, dd.
p.s. i also got my stolen gt250 big bang back after 5 months. 100 miles away and listed on fleabay :lol:
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
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