Points really aren't all that big of a deal I discovered

[bobotech]

I have never had to adjust points or deal with them since I was a 17 year old driver with a 1970 Ford Maverick that I owned in 1985. I didn't adjust or deal with the points on that car back then, my buddy did so I never really dealt with them at al.

So they have always been a mystery to me. I have been afraid of them so when i got a 75 Honda 750 many many years ago, I bought an electronic ignition for it.

So with this GT550 of mine, I have finally had to deal with points. Hmm. I'm kind of embarrassed to say that points aren't really a big deal at all if the timing is good. Just remove the screw, undo the condenser wires, replace, and adjust to .014 with a feeler gauge at the high point of the cam.

I got new points yesterday and changed them at dusk. Started the bike up and it runs nicely yet still loud (need to replace the muffler and repack my baffles). No big deal at all. I feel silly for avoiding them all those years.

[Suzsmokeyallan]

Most people that see those three points on the plate for the first time, freeze up, but once you understand the design its quite easy to work on them as you've discovered. Just go through the steps of getting them correctly set up and away you go.

[tz375]

Points have worked since they were invented by Kettering a hundred or so years ago, but in this day and age, why anyone would choose to keep such an antiquated design is something I don't understand. There are so many modern reliable solid state switching systems that don't wear or corrode and switch faster than even a well adjusted set of points, that there are few excuses for hanging onto points.

OK so there's nostalgia and the fact that they are fairly cheap if the ones you have already work.

EFI on the other hand offers less options and larger entry price point, but for an ignition switching system points are just a little old fashioned and prone to breakdown. That used to be said of electronic ignitions, but they are just so reliable now.

Points are not hard to adjust, but electronic never needs to be adjusted. It's just that simple.

[Suzsmokeyallan]

Since I used my stock GT for long distance touring, I like the fact the points are simple to fix at the side of the road if need be. An electronic system is better all around, but then I'd have to buy two and carry the spare unit with me for touring 'just in case'
Sooooo for now, I carry a spare set of points and condensers and life regarding ignition issues is simple and easy on the road.

Richard, you know; you are quick for updating some things such as scrapping the points/condensers for pointless ignitions, yet in other areas you prefer to leave it as it exactly as it was designed.

[bobotech]

OH I would totally go with electronic ignition on this motorcycle but for now I'm just happy that I got the points working well enough.

The thing is that I'm not sure if I am going to keep the Suzuki. I have been doing so much work on this motorcycle, I just want to get it running well and looking okay and then I will decide if I want to keep it or not so I don't want to spend the money for the electronic ignition at this point.

I am a large guy (quite large) and a 550 just seems rather small for me. I really would like to have a classic Goldwing like a later 70s or so. Or maybe a KZ1000 or something like that. I want torque more than horsepower. However this little 550 is growing on me for some strange reason. I just wonder how much I could sell it for after getting it running well and looking okay. These bikes seem to be somewhat collectable.

[Coyote]

EFI? You'll have to explain that to me Richard. I only know EFI as Electronic Fuel Injection.

[tz375]

Since I used my stock GT for long distance touring, I like the fact the points are simple to fix at the side of the road if need be. An electronic system is better all around, but then I'd have to buy two and carry the spare unit with me for touring 'just in case'

Why? Do you carry a spare ignition on your car just in case? Of course not and why? Because they are basically dead reliable. We're not talking seventies electronics here, but we still carry those same conservative views that they can't be trusted. Every bike manufactured since the eighties has electronic ignition because they last longer are way more accurate and stay that way. Do riders of modern bikes carry a spare? Not likely.

We are riding old bikes for sure and we all choose what parts, if any, we choose to update. From my perspective a good ignition system is a must on a two stroke and points just don't cut it with modern chemical soup they sell at gas stations.

That's my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

[tz375]

EFI? You'll have to explain that to me Richard. I only know EFI as Electronic Fuel Injection.

Chris, You are correct.

I was trying to draw the comparison to EFI which is way more complicated to set up correctly and needs all manner of sensors, whereas an electronic ignition is fit and forget. And with a possible EFI conversion to replace old carbs, there are few choices and they cost a fortune.

Electronic ignitions on the other hand are much cheaper and there are many choices.

[H2RICK]

Well, as for modern aftermarket electronic ignitions, I'm still not completely convinced of their durability......plus the Dyna S is ALSO a power hog of legendary proportions.
On a GT750/550/380 power usage is not a consideration because of the fairly high capacity of the charging system, however.....on my KZ650 with its lame single phase charging system of modest output AND only a 10 amp/hour battery, accessory power draw becomes a large issue. There a quite a few older bikes out there that have the same combination of problems.
As to the durability question: the ignition of choice for many is Boyer-Bransden.....but they have had their failures from time to time....and so has Dyna.
There are other systems out there that I haven't personally tried that MAY be more durable AND use less power but I still remain sceptical enough so that I won't be changing from points on either my 550 or 650. IMO, there is nothing worse than being stranded because of a failed black box. With points, I can always bodge something together to get me home.....or to someplace that can help me with spare bits. Tow trucks are really expensive these days if you care to look at their rates.
TZ, your point about 1990 and later ignitions being very durable is taken.....BUT.....as far as I'm concerned, aftermarket ignitions aren't yet quite to the stage that OE ignitions reached in 1990.
So, mark me down as a non-believer in aftermarket electronic ignitions, especially for use on bikes that even only occasionally travel more than ~50 miles away from home.

[jabcb]

On current draw...

Did a quick Google search. Based on what I found, looks like the Dyna S has a dwell angle of around 315 degrees. KZ650 point ignition has a dwell of around 180 degrees.

I have the updated Newtronics for the GT750. Haven't measured it, but the dwell angle looks to be around 170 degrees.
The older Newtronics kit is shown in this review: http://medial.com/suzuki/newtronic/
Looks like the dwell angle for the older kit is around 120 degrees.

Have never bothered to check the dwell on any bike. Suzuki GT-series dwell angle is probably similar to the KZ or perhaps a bit less.

The dwell angle divided by 360 degrees give the fraction of time the coils are powered.
180/360 = .5 315/360 = .88

Given all of this, the Newtronics kit looks to have a similar current draw to the stock points.

Dyna S definitely looks to be the power hog.
.88/.5 = 1.8
So I'd expect the Dyna S to draw around 80% more power than the stock points.

[Suzsmokeyallan]

Richard your points are taken BUT I still do not trust it period, I've seen too many electronic parts just fail for no reason. Recently, I just replaced an ECU on a practically brand new vehicle that just up and quit, leaving the vehicles engine management totally dead.
These sorts of things and others related to electronic components I experience in my job do not inspire total confidence in modern electronics, and anything electrical is bound to fail, the thing is when will it fail and not if.
Being in Alberta, going on a short loop out around Calgary's foothills and back can easily be a 200 mile round trip. You must also remember most of these roads are not frequented by large volumes of traffic so you will be pushing for MILES if you suddenly have no spark.
Lets go for a little ride to Vancouver island for example and you are now easily more than 1000 miles away from home base. In such remote places you definitely do not want to have any kind of issue, far less a 'black box' failure.
Anything else you can more or less fix or re-engineer to make it back home, but a dead electronic ignition box is a lost cause. For my peace of mind even my Bandit will have a spare box during the upcoming 2011 trip.
I'd run anything electronic on a bike here on the island, since of its small size I'm close to home all the time, but in Western Canada, HA! you tread carefully, very carefully.

Sooooo for now, I carry a spare set of points and condensers and life regarding ignition issues is simple and easy on the road.

Even with the old reliable points I still carry a spare set with condensers,,,, just in case.

[Madbuffalo]

I'll jump into the ring here if I may and point out that nobody's mentioned ORIGINALITY. Sure we could all upgrade to electronic ignition, etc. but then why not just buy a new bike? IMO while these bikes operate very much on "dead technology' that's all part of the experience of owning one. Sure I've had to adjust points roadside a time or two but as Bobotech and Allan pointed out it's not that difficult.

[bobotech]

Well If I decide to keep the bike, I would consider getting an electronic ignition for it but for now, points will suffice.

The question I have now is this, how do you know your points will need adjusting?

[tz375]

Rick, Good point about OEM quality versus small batch production, but check out teh Accent unit - nice surface mount cotract manufactured unit.

Josh, sure it's not original but it's hidden and improves reliability and ignition timing and has the possibility of avoiding timing related meltdowns.

JABCB, That's a whole lot of dwell. I did a quick search on line and got a lot of conflicting answers, but they do seem to draw a lot of current. That may be why they make such a fat spark even up to revs way beyond the scope of a Suzuki from the seventies. I'm running three Dyna S pickups and I fitted the same system to the last GT I rebuilt and the new owner never seemed to have any problems with it. It's hard to extrapolate from that tiny sample though.

They have sold a truck load of Dyna ignitions over the years though and still the debate rages.

Allan, if that increases your confidence level when going on a trip then it is worthwhile for you to stay with points.

For myself, I'll just keep throwing points sway and fitting something more reliable and dependable

[jabcb]

The GT380/GT550 have either Nippon Denso or Kokusan alternators.
The GT750 have Nippon Denso alternators.

If the Dyna S dwell angle is anything like 80% more than points, then I'd be leery of using it with the Kokusan alternator. But it looks to fine with the Nippon Denso.

The T250/T350/GT250 take this issue to the extreme. Their alternators are so dismal they don't even have voltage regulators.