What did I do wrong ?

[KraigG]

Can someone clue me in what I did to piss off this guy? I inquired early in December about getting a rear grab bar:

<<Hi John.

Nice work you're doing on the bars/racks there! I need a rear grab bar for my 74 Suzuki GT750L. Do you have any of these left? Plus shipping to the US. Illinois zip code 60085.

Thanks,
Kraig>>

I get this in return:

<<Hi Kraig
I wont be making any till the new year.
theres one here but be quick.
it will be a little cheaper that I sell them for.
mine £70 inc p&p this one £62 inc p&p. john

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Suzuki-GT750-Grab" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... df7db#shId>>

So, I say:

<<John:

Thanks for the link. The bloke's feedback rating doesn't inspire confidence here, so I think I'll wait until you start making new ones.

Is there a list you could add me too, and let me know when you start up again?

Thanks,

Kraig
74 GT750 grab rail>>

This is the reply I get:

<<sorry I don't keep list.
this because some folks changed their mind after I've made them.so if they still want one,then they can contact me later.
contact me mid january. john>>

So, let me get this straight. He doesn't keep a list, and if I want one I can CONTACT him, and order one. Am I understanding this correctly?

Last week, I get this reply:

<<Hi Kraig
I've made the grab rail for you(GT750)
once it is at the chromers I'll invoice you.
total cost inc p&p is £67...$108
please give me your email address to the invoice goes to. cheers john>>

So, of course I've already obtained one, because he said I can contact him later if I want one. Is everyone following along here?
Baffled, I reply as such:

<<Hi John.

You didn't sound too encouraging when I last inquired, so I never placed an order. I found another vendor in the UK, and had them in a week.

Thanks,
Kraig>>

And I get this scathing response:

<<you didn't have to place an order.
I was very busy at the time.
anyway its folks like you who spoils it for every one else.
I need this and goes and buy from some one else with out informing me.
one thing for sure you will not buy of me in future for what ever bike you may get.>>

Am I really spoiling it for everyone? Did the guy tell me to CONTACT HIM IN JANUARY if I still wanted one? Which I never did? Why is it MY fault? I generally keep things pretty clear, and I think my emails show that if I wanted one, I was willing to contact him to place my order.

WTF? And why is it the mentally retarded that ride Harleys? Are they perhaps too complicated for this poor fellow to figure out??

[Joiseygirl]

"one thing for sure you will not buy of me in future for what ever bike you may get"

Sounds like "The Soup Nazi" episode from Jerry Seinfeld, "no soup for you"!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k03qVN4lTgg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[tz375]

This appears to be a classic case of different expectations that come from the cultures we grow up in.

John approaches people a certain way because that's the norm in his culture and his expectations are probably based on cultural values of Fair Play and a sense of the common good, plus his experiences in the UK where customers often have to wait for suppliers.

Kraig on the other hand comes from a different culture where cultural values evolved from the central theme of individualism and from that comes expectations as to how companies ought to look after customers and that the customer comes first.

Two potentially very different sets of expectations.

US Americans put much weight on words used and will seek to dissect and analyze the words i.e. the Content to better understand where the communication failed. The British will tend to rely on their understanding of the intent of the communication and the context. The cultures are in many ways more different than they are the same.

Let's just accept this as an example of how our common language often comes between us and learn that doing business across cultures is hard, and it's hardest when those cultures appear to be so close.

[djfisher22]

Here's what John read.................
Thanks for the link. The bloke's feedback rating doesn't inspire confidence here, so I think I'll wait until you start making new ones.Here's what I think he reasonably would expect ............. "John, I went ahead and bought a rack so thanks anyway."
Things like this depend on your point of view. He saw " I'll wait till you start making new ones" which you could see as an order of sorts. You saw ...................."so if they still want one,then they can contact me later.
contact me mid january."
Miscommunication for sure, but "I think "I'll wait until you start making new ones" sounds like he deserved a nevermind note when you bought one elsewhere. Were I in his shoes I probably would have sent a note to make sure you still wanted one, but that's me.
Just my opinion though.

[johnakay]

it would have been better if you had contact me sooner than later,
if you already have purchase a grab rail.
this not the 1st time this has happened and your not the only one Kraig that have done this.
so as of now I will treat all enquiries as such.
that way there will be no confusion on both sides.
its a bad time of the year at the moment with my personal Tax to sort out and playing catch up with orders.
for the last 3 weeks I had a break from making any rails so that I can work on prototype etc and altering jigs and equipment and this is an ongoing thing.
once I've got things sorted .
I will put up price's for racks and rails so that you can see before ordering.
you may have a long wait so bare this in mind.
also on orders I will require a deposit of 50% none refundable.
sorry of having to do this but I think it will best to do it this way.
this will cover most of my cost should the rack or rail not sold.


the men's reply- they are the only ones who have a sensible approach to grievances etc.
BUT ISN'T IT
Bloody typical of a woman putting her mouth in gear before her brain .
it was a woman that got all us into this mess in the 1st place wasn't it eve

[TLRam1]

You two guys broke this down well much better than I could fathom, between what both of you said hit it on the head pretty well.

On John's part it was the implied agreement and on Kraig's part, there was no implication and he choose to purchase elsewhere.

Due to this being a one mans operation and custom piece, if I were Kraig I would of said thanks but I found one somewhere else so don't make an extra one for me, if I were John I would have responded a differently. In business attitudes make it worst for all involved.

Keeping a list, I tell people the same because I can't keep a list, it would grow too long and I physically could not keep my word and respond, so I tell them what John did and when to contact me again to check on the status. If I have a order than I have a list, no order I must move to the next person.

[jabcb]

Don't want to get in the middle of this. Would like to offer a solution instead.

John, I suggest that you take a deposit on orders. That way both parties are certain what the situation is. Its not an order till you have the deposit. You could make a hardcopy of the PayPal deposit notices & use that to track your order processing. Only would need a folder for orders placed and another for orders completed. Wouldn't start making the rail/rack until you've got the deposit. (Other folders might be useful too: such as inquires, completed-waiting-for-payment, and completed-order-canceled.)

Would get payment in full before shipping. If the customer decides not to pay in full then the order is canceled and you have the part plus their deposit.

A deposit in the range of 20 to 50% would seem reasonable. For example, a recent threat about rechroming in this forum mentioned a 50% deposit. See: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4004

For everyone else, small businesses tend to have some hick-ups that they have to figure out how to avoid. John provides some nice parts that are otherwise unavailable. So please give him some slack while he works this out.

I hope this gets resolved. I have two T350s & would like to get a rack for at least one of them, maybe both. Haven't decided yet & am also not sure what the price would be.

[rbond]

It was mostly a bit of mis understanding. Both parties meant well with no meaning of animosity, so that being said and the above mention of 'cultural' differences, let it go. Chalk it up as a learning experience, but by no means hold anything against Johnakay of kraig. And do not hesitate to do business with John in the future, he really is a nice old fart.