T500 Early Cobra Discussion

[cyclebuster]

Ok i hear different things about these Early Cobras.
10 fin jug; On muzzas site is a T500/5 1st release advertisement. its a black short WB with... 11 fins
Release dates. Are the 67 builts titled as 67s? Is there any way to tell build date? should i title mine a 67?
One site lists t500 as Cobras until the 70 model year, making the 69 also a Cobra?
what is the cutoff for Short WHB
What is the cutoff from T500/5 to Cobra?
My T500-00203, Long WB is it one of the last t500/5, middle of the /5 run, Or do I have the first Cobra?
All 11 fin barrels use later pistons?
Every /5 picture I see has no signals, while every Cobra picture has them. Mine has chrome bolts in the mount holes and no switch nor wires.
Any early production figures?

[spike]

Ok i hear different things about these Early Cobras.
10 fin jug; On muzzas site is a T500/5 1st release advertisement. its a black short WB with... 11 fins
Release dates. Are the 67 builts titled as 67s? Is there any way to tell build date? should i title mine a 67?
One site lists t500 as Cobras until the 70 model year, making the 69 also a Cobra?
what is the cutoff for Short WHB
What is the cutoff from T500/5 to Cobra?
My T500-00203, Long WB is it one of the last t500/5, middle of the /5 run, Or do I have the first Cobra?
All 11 fin barrels use later pistons?
Every /5 picture I see has no signals, while every Cobra picture has them. Mine has chrome bolts in the mount holes and no switch nor wires.
Any early production figures?

As far as I know:
500/5 should have a 10 fin barrel and a short WB. Very few were made and yours could be one of the last ones made
or maybe a "in-between" model, or it's been done up. The short WB makes them a bit like enlarged T20 (ie twitchy), must be a bit unnerving.
Normally 500/5 were 67 "models". Talk is about a few hundreds made…

The Cobra with long WB is a 68 model and most if not all of them initially had 10 fins. The 11 fins seem to have been fitted somewhere mid-run.
The Titan (or T500 II) is the 69 model (different look) and have new pistons and 11 fins. (which were quickly changed for GT750 ones when these became available).

Signals were an accessory and you had to pay extra… the PO was a bit skint. Is your LH switch blank (uncut) or only without the slider knob?

[cyclebuster]

switch block is not only uncut, but different, no area to put a switch. So as are the grips, they have the rectangle releifs but they are flat with no raised center.
And its hard to imagine 10 fins on many bikes when a /5 advertisement has 11 on it
This bike is supposed to be 100 percent original, from the seller. if i recall its got like 6k on it.
Bike number 203 should be pretty early, unless they had different numbers for /5 models.

[diamondj]

Hey Cyclebuster,

Can you confirm your frame number is 00203? I swear I read somewhere Suzuki started at 10001 when they started building the 500. Then again I recall reading about the 10 fin cylinders and I have never seen one. Doesn't mean they don't exist but it also doesn't mean some moto-journalist didn't miscount and start an urban legend in one of the moto mags.

As far as I can tell no T500s were registered in the USA or Canada as 1967 models only 1968. They were available prior to January 1, 1968 but they were considered a 1968 model. This has been a big point of contention in vintage racing circles particularly the Canadian VRRA as the cut-off for the classes the T500 would be competitive in is 1967 and they will only recognize the T500 starting in 1968.

I have seen an original short wheel base T500. Paul Miller had one at Mid-Ohio one year. Zook-e, Mowgli, TBrock, and a few others on this board saw it too. We stood around it looking for signs that it was a clever rework of a stock Cobra and as far as we could all tell, it was genuine. I don't remember the exact frame number but it was sub 100 and the number started with a 1 like T500-100xx. Maybe you can pm Zook-e or Tbrock and see if their memories are better.

Didn't turn signals become a national requirement after 1972 or 73? I can tell you there are no signals in my Feb 1968 parts book but the rear signals (no fronts) do appear in the 1969 supplement to the parts book.

Jim

[cyclebuster]

I have heard about that same bike, would love to find it, or pictures.I knew they started with 10001, or so i read. Yeah, its T500-10204 engine and frame. Making it bike number 203. I bought it almost sight unseen mis listed off ebay. The ad read Suzuki quad engine, parts. very poor grainy pics, enough to see the T500 engine and pipes, not much elese so i drove there expecting an engine. I paid him his $65 winning bid, and drove off, shocked to see a nearly complete Cobra. I had the son crawl into the back of the van and look, and when he read the serial number i had to pull off and look.
I wonder if California keeps records for the black plate it has on it?
I like 3 digit bikes, of all makes. I have BSA Rocket 3 number 245. I still have a 69H1 engine number KAF0070x
Anyway, I will title it soon, and want to know all i can, since its not a 17 digit VIN, i tell them the year, ya know. I can title it as a 1967 or 68.

[Suzsmokeyallan]

Remember those SWB Cobras also had the cut outs in the top of the exhaust pipes for the axles farther forward than the later stock units so thats an item also specific to the first bikes.