ATF in the gearbox????

diamondj · Post by **diamondj** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:19 am

Hi All,

Just rebuilt a wonky kick start on a T500 and found the gearbox was filled with looked like ATF! It was red and had that trans fluid smell. Has anyone ever seen this before? Was this standard practice back in the day or did someone just "feed it" the wrong stuff?

Thanks!

JIm

Post by **oldjapanesebikes** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:36 am

Nope.

As front fork oil - yes, but never as the main tranny ingredient.

Frank T · Post by **Frank T** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:04 am

Honda's two stroke tranny lube is red, that's what it could be. I use it in many of my bikes and it works well.

Zunspec4 · Post by **Zunspec4** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:32 pm

On engines with a Primary chain (old time Triumphs etc.) twix crank and gear box ATF could be used. The g/box oil was separate and usually 20-50/90 type oil. I don't believe ATF is in anyway suitable for lubricating actual gears however.

Cheers Zunspec

ja-moo · Post by **ja-moo** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:49 pm

ATF was the "hot tip" in the 70's. For what reason, I don't know.......

Not good for a tranny......

Barry S. · Post by **Barry S.** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:59 pm

I have ran it for years in 2-stroke dirtbikes with no problems but they don't run all day long at highway speeds so I don't think it would be a good idea for long term use.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:33 pm

Bel-Ray gearsaver is red as well.

rngdng · Post by **rngdng** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:15 am

I have known people that ran ATF in two-stroke trannys.

Lane

Post by **Suzsmokeyallan** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:57 am

The ATF fluid should not harm the mechanical gearbox parts since their makeup is similar to the ones found in the Antonov type transmissions.
However the clutch friction material found in those transmissions is different and semi-sealed within the fluid, and thats where the problem may lie.
I'd suspect the ATF will attack the friction material of the motorcycle plates and eventually create glazing/hardening.
Theres quite a few variations of ATF in use today, but I'd see no reason to try it when a type of oil is recommended.

ja-moo · Post by **ja-moo** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:23 am

Metals todlay are much better than 30-40 years ago. If you want to see a bunch of "gear" sluge in the bottom of a set of cases, find a old bike that ran ATF........

Post by **Suzsmokeyallan** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:40 pm

No argument from me on that one Moo but even using regular transmission oil you still get some swarf like pieces stuck to the drain bolt.
It always amazes me as to where are these pieces coming from.

H2RICK · Post by **H2RICK** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:31 pm

This is a "bete noir" in my world. I've had this very argument (as John may recall) on the KTW board......and on this board as well.
Gear oil is for gears.....and ATF is for....well....automatic trannies. ATF does NOT have the EP (Extreme Pressure) additives that SAE GL4 and GL5 spec gear oils do. The EP additives prevent the metal to metal contact that ruins the faces of the gear teeth in a manual tranny. I could explain exactly what happens but it is laid out in my "treatise" on why you should use a proper gear oil in a two stroke tranny.
Yes, there ARE gears in an automatic transmission.....BUT......they are NOT subjected to the shock loads that a manual bike transmission is AND they have a bigazz old torque converter between them and the engine to further reduce any strains on them.
Yes, four stroke bikes use engine oil to lube the tranny....BUT.....many four stroke trannies since the mid-late 80's have pressure fed gears and shafts. As well, all semi-modern and modern four stroke unit engines have trannies designed and constructed from the get-go with the use of motor oil as a lubricant in mind.
Our old strokers do NOT have the advantage of this type of design philosophy or the benefits of higher grade materials like more modern bike trannies.

Link to my gear oil writeup:

http://www.3cyl.com/mraxl/gt/gearoils5.PDF

You're welcome, I'm sure.

rbond · Post by **rbond** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:17 am

Methinks H2RICK needs to change his handle to Professor H2RICK. His treatise was really slick........

H2RICK · Post by **H2RICK** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:39 am

Methinks H2RICK needs to change his handle to Professor H2RICK. His treatise was really slick........

Well, that's maybe a little over-the-top......but thank you for your encouragement. I'm glad you enjoyed the "treatise".

Lubrication, generally, is a subject near and dear to my inquiring mind. One of the most interesting times I've ever had was a 3 hour BS and beer session with a VERY experienced lubes engineer from Shell. He pretty much gave me Lubes 101 in those 3 hours and the tech publications I've gathered and read over the years before and since have filled in any gaps that the engineer might have missed.
I am still learning..

..but some folks think I need to get out more....

dinogt · Post by **dinogt** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:14 pm

ATF3is good for motor max about 8000rpm .
With atf you have a good feeling with your box but over 8000rpm it doesn't do very goog, like if there no oil in box. This oil is good for trial boxes.
Used 2 stroke oil box 10W30, it's better over 8000rpm
I try those oils in my GT 500.

ATF in the gearbox????

ATF in the gearbox????

oil

Re: ATF in the gearbox????