GT550 starter question

General discussion about Street two-stroke Suzuki motorcycles.

Moderators: oldjapanesebikes, H2RICK, diamondj, Suzsmokeyallan

TheCurtster
On the street
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:30 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: GT550 RD400 R1200RT

GT550 starter question

Post by TheCurtster »

Hi gurus,

The electric starter on the 74 GT550 I recently purchased worked fine the time the seller started it, but miraculously has quit working ever since (go figure). It spins, but mostly just makes a grinding noise instead of starting the bike. I now realize that this is pretty common in my year bike, and expensive to fix.
The question is whether the busted starter is more than an annoyance? Can I just kick it and go, or is it likely there are loose parts in there that are gonna jam something up? That sounds even more expensive.

Thanks in advance,

Curt
GTandcbr
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:35 pm
Country: WALES
Suzuki 2-Strokes: suzuki gt 550j
Location: Wales

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by GTandcbr »

Hi Curt. I have a 550. The starter motors can be problematic but yes you should be alright kickstarting it as the starter disengages from the bike engine as soon as its running. Why dont you remove the starter its underneath the engine and requires removing the exhaust and draining the transmission oil first. The motor is relatively easy to pull apart. Have a look at the brushes they can be bought easily.
I take it the grinding noise goes away when the motor starts ? If not its more likely to be the starter clutch not the motor
Could also be a problem with the idler gear which connects the starter to the starter clutch
https://flic.kr/p/ZY8R1R" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by GTandcbr on Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
98 carb Blackbird and GT550j
User avatar
Alan H
Moto GP
Posts: 3160
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:50 am
Country: England
Suzuki 2-Strokes: 4 x GT550s - J, M, A, B.
Location: The Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by Alan H »

It really needs sorting one way or another. If it's an early type starter clutch, they could split the centre that the three rollers run on. If this happens, it could either jam the clutch or drive the starter motor at high speed and jam the gearbox. Your choice. My choice would be to strip it and get it sorted.
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
User avatar
jabcb
Moto GP
Posts: 4240
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:32 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: 69 T350 thru 75 GT750
Location: southwestern Pennsylvania

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by jabcb »

Service Bulletin GT-26 has info on the upgraded starter clutch. http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/techb ... 022-26.pdf

Occasionally a used upgraded starter clutch assembly shows up on eBay for reasonable money.
Just make sure to get the all the needed parts in one matched set.
BAS (Bike Acquisition Syndrome) - too many bikes but have room for more

Suzuki:
GT750 2x75
GT550 72 & 75
GT380 72
T500 69 project & 73 project
T350 69 & 71
Honda 85 CB650SC & 86 CB700SC
09 Triumph Bonneville SE
TheCurtster
On the street
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:30 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: GT550 RD400 R1200RT

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by TheCurtster »

Thanks for the replies... the electric starter motor spins when the button is pressed, but the grinding sound comes, I believe, because it’s not engaging whatever it’s supposed to engage to turn the engine over.
As far as purchasing something off eBay, I guess I’m not exactly sure what the complete assembly would be. Also, what would you consider a reasonable price for that?
My biggest concern right now would be if any little parts of the grinding gears were loose inside the motor, possibly causing mayhem. That would suck.

Curt
GTandcbr
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:35 pm
Country: WALES
Suzuki 2-Strokes: suzuki gt 550j
Location: Wales

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by GTandcbr »

Before buying anything i would check your system first. Its a no brainer and a good thing to do anyway.
1 make sure battery is good and fully charged. Use a multimeter.
2 check big +ve cable from battery is good and not broken.
3 remove and clean both in and out connections to solenoid.
4 remove and clean small cable to solenoid which goes to start button.
5 check -ve earth cable is in good condition and properly connected to the engine bolt
If all that is done then you will need to drop the starter out.
98 carb Blackbird and GT550j
TheCurtster
On the street
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:30 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: GT550 RD400 R1200RT

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by TheCurtster »

So just to be sure we’re all on the same page, I posted this little video on YouTube. Most of the suggestions seem to be electrical in nature, and I think it’s more mechanical. Maybe I’m wrong, but take a look at this and let me know what you think.

BTW, this is not one long push of the start button, but multiple short taps of it.

https://youtu.be/Yl_5gjwqup4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks again, everyone!

Curt
User avatar
Alan H
Moto GP
Posts: 3160
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:50 am
Country: England
Suzuki 2-Strokes: 4 x GT550s - J, M, A, B.
Location: The Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by Alan H »

I first had a GT550 back in 1972 and ran it for about four years, doing lots of work on it as needed. Since 2011 I have restored two (currently restoring a third) and have 5 altogether. I know a bit about GT550s.
I suggested that you get the clutch off and get it sorted before you damage something seriously. That still goes.
It sounds like an early starter clutch breaking up or hopefully, maybe just loose. If you keep using it, it will either lock the engine/clutch/gearbox and damage any or all of them. The choice is yours as I said before, but I wouldn't keep running it.
The thing about advice is that you can always disregard it, but you can't disregard the consequences.
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
TheCurtster
On the street
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:30 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: GT550 RD400 R1200RT

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by TheCurtster »

Alan,
Thanks for the comments. Hopefully you’ll understand that while I was not disregarding your advice, I was also getting advice from others that seemed to think it was an electrical issue. The video was to show the mechanical problem.

You suggested to “strip it and get it sorted”. Would you mind elaborating a little for the new guy? Sorry to be a pain, but I’m new to the GT world.

Also, if you’ve got a link to a service manual I could download, I’d sure be interested.

Seriously, very grateful for the help.

Curt
User avatar
Alan H
Moto GP
Posts: 3160
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:50 am
Country: England
Suzuki 2-Strokes: 4 x GT550s - J, M, A, B.
Location: The Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by Alan H »

I've not seen a downloadable service manual other than the one I offer free to anyone pm'ing me their email address. It's a settings manual rather than a 'how to' book, and covers all models up to 1973.
You need a parts catalogue which shows exploded diagrams of every component on the bike, and a Haynes or similar manual. Both found on ebay from time to time.
Going with the noises, I still reckon it's mechanical not electrical.
Get a few of plastic containers 6" x 3" or similar to put the bits in that you take off.
Drain the gearbox oil (via the straight, NOT the angled stud underneath the gearbox), take off the round points cover (I'll say why soon), and remove the clutch cover - right side of the engine.
Check that the clutch isn't loose - if it is, it's the clutch centre nut that needs tightening and locking (see below).
The clutch has 6 10mm head bolts which have to come out, then the springs etc. and clutch pressure plate will come off. Clutch plates all out - keep taking pics of everything you loosen, remove, move etc.
The clutch basket that the plates live in has to come off next, lock the clutch with rag or a piece of wood in the gear teeth that run to the end of the crankshaft, flatten the locking washer on the clutch centre and undo the nut. Take the nut and washer off. The clutch basket can now be removed carefully.
Have a look at the back and se if it has a roughly triangular plate secured by 3 countersunk cross head screws. If it does it's the old type of clutch, if not it's the later type. Carry the entire clutch basket with everything on the back of it to a a clean bench with some room to work. Take out the three cross head screws and lift off the 'triangular' plate.
Now lift the gearwheel carefully and watch for three rollers, three springs and three collets that should run on the centre shaft that is attached to the gearwheel you have just lifted out. If that centre is OK, and all the rollers, springs and collets are OK, they need a good clean and replacing back where they came from. If the centre is cracked or broken, it needs replacing and someone may have one, but they are very rare. The later clutches are very rare too but can be swapped entirely for the early type - not partly, entirely.
Now if all the parts are OK, great, clean, lightly oil and replace and tighten the three countersunk studs on the triangular plate. Getting the centre past the rollers will involve a lot of swearing usually. If you aren't familiar with that, lots of folks on here can help!!
If the centre part that you removed is cracked or broken, you need another one, or I believe they can be left off if broken (the electric start won't work though) In that case leave out the rollers, springs and collets. Save them as they may be needed if you get another centre. Replace all the parts you removed, and make sure the clutch centre is tight and then turn over the locking washer so the nut can't come undone.
To refit the clutch casing, there's a 'cup' behind the points that has a cutout in it. This has to align with the pin on the end of the crankshaft. GENTLY, turn the nut on the end of the points plate until the casing goes back into place. It should not need force, but a few more swear words usually help.
Put all the screws in the outer case and if you managed to get everything back together as it was, you should be able to try the electric start. If you had to leave parts out, then disconnect the thin lead to the solenoid and you're on the kicker.
If any or most of this is a bit beyond what you are comfortable with. Get some help from a mechanic that is at least familiar with this type of bike. Or as I'm retired, pay my air fare and I'll nip over and have a look myself!
Better to get a manual and read up on what you're doing first and what I've written may make more sense.
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
User avatar
jabcb
Moto GP
Posts: 4240
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:32 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: 69 T350 thru 75 GT750
Location: southwestern Pennsylvania

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by jabcb »

Manuals that you can view online are here: https://www.oldjapanesebikes.com//mraxl ... /index.php
I prever to use old school paper manuals that are available via eBay.

Service Bulletins that you can print are here: http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/techbuls/index.htm
BAS (Bike Acquisition Syndrome) - too many bikes but have room for more

Suzuki:
GT750 2x75
GT550 72 & 75
GT380 72
T500 69 project & 73 project
T350 69 & 71
Honda 85 CB650SC & 86 CB700SC
09 Triumph Bonneville SE
TheCurtster
On the street
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:30 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: GT550 RD400 R1200RT

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by TheCurtster »

Wow! Thank you for taking the time to write that all up. I’m thinking that I’m probably up to that level of work, but it’ll have to wait a couple weeks until I get home from an upcoming trip. That sounds like something one would not want to start and then leave alone for a while!
If I wind up getting stuck in here, maybe I’ll fly you over! By the time I get to this, it’ll be getting chilly in your part of the world and you might appreciate a Los Angeles vacation. I actually work for a big airline, and it’d be cheaper to fly you over than find a mechanic! I’ll post back in a few weeks when I get going.

Jabcb, thanks for the links... I’ll take a look. I prefer paper as well. Gives me something to beat my head with when I get frustrated.

I’ll let you all know how it goes.

Thanks again,

Curt
GTandcbr
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:35 pm
Country: WALES
Suzuki 2-Strokes: suzuki gt 550j
Location: Wales

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by GTandcbr »

Yep deffo needs stripping here is an exploded diagram of the clutch
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/suzuk ... 550/clutch" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
98 carb Blackbird and GT550j
TheCurtster
On the street
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:30 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: GT550 RD400 R1200RT

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by TheCurtster »

I take it that the part numbered 2 on the diagram is the unobtainable one? (One way clutch assy).

Curt
User avatar
Alan H
Moto GP
Posts: 3160
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:50 am
Country: England
Suzuki 2-Strokes: 4 x GT550s - J, M, A, B.
Location: The Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: GT550 starter question

Post by Alan H »

TheCurtster wrote:Wow! Thank you for taking the time to write that all up. I’m thinking that I’m probably up to that level of work, but it’ll have to wait a couple weeks until I get home from an upcoming trip. That sounds like something one would not want to start and then leave alone for a while!
No probs.
If I wind up getting stuck in here, maybe I’ll fly you over! By the time I get to this, it’ll be getting chilly in your part of the world and you might appreciate a Los Angeles vacation. I actually work for a big airline, and it’d be cheaper to fly you over than find a mechanic! I’ll post back in a few weeks when I get going.
Just missed your chance - got back from a month in San Francisco (and Hawaii) a couple of weeks ago!, But yes, I would go back in a heartbeat![/quote]
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realise that half of them are more stupid than that.
Post Reply