Inexperienced newbie needs help

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pgb123
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Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by pgb123 »

Hi all -

About 5 years ago, I acquired a GT550. I've been unsure of the date, but now I believe it's a '76 A because it has the short front fender with a single fender stay. Anyway, the bike was started and idled fine when I acquired it. It then sat in my garage untouched for a year or so when I finally shifted my attention back to it and started it up. It smoked like crazy, but it did start up. I turned it off to clear the smoke out of my garage and when I went to start it up again, the engine turned over a few times, but wouldn't start. Eventually. the starter only clicked and nothing else happened and soon I managed to just kill the battery.

As you can see, I have zero motorcycle experience and I'm a slow learner!

Fast forward many years to this morning - I purchased a new battery and installed it this morning. Added some 95 gas to the tank and tried to start it up. At first, the engine turned over. I turned it over several times, tried to kick start it at the same time, but it just wouldn't catch. Eventually, just clicking. I waited a few minutes and tried again. It turned over again and after a few more tries, it sounded like it was catching and then a few pops and a loud clack and then nothing. I tried the starter a few more time and then smoke started coming up from underneath the fuel tank. It smelled like something electrical.

I let everything cool down and though I know I shouldn't have, I tried to start it up again. I think I got it to turn over again and heard some more popping like it was going to start, but it didn't and I killed the battery.

Just for good measure, I hooked the battery leads up to my car, and now the bike just clicks. No turning over. Did I burn out my starter? Worse, did I seize the engine!?

Also, I've noticed that the petcock is leaking, so I'm guessing I have to drain the tank, pull that out and re-build it. I plan to buy one of those rebuild kits from ebay (i.e. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-GT380-G ... Rg&vxp=mtr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and follow this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWNyvjaWfz8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does anyone have any advice for me other than to move on to something else for which I'm better suited!?

Thank you in advance!
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by sportston »

pgb123 wrote: Does anyone have any advice for me other than to move on to something else for which I'm better suited!?
Yes. Remove the tank and find out what was burning. Then fix it. (maybe loose terminals arcing due to current draw. Or possibly buggered starter or solenoid).
Remove your battery and charge it up before you do any testing.
Only connect it up when you are ready to test things, not before (in case you have a short that would drain the battery).

Once you have made sure you have not got any melted or shorted wires, check to see if bike has ignition spark. You can do this either with a mate kicking it over manually while you check the spark or using the starter if you got it working again.
Check for spark by holding spark plug against a good earth with plastic pliers or well-insulated pliers. You should see a small spark between the centre electrode and the earth post.
If no spark then you must find out why. A slightly laborious process of elimination will be necessary.
Check ignition voltage present at coils. Check to see if points are set correctly and the contact areas are clean and not badly pitted. Do they each have 12v at the points when they are open? Is the points cam lightly greased? Do they each spark when the engine is turned over by hand with ignition on? etcetera.....
Check condition of spark plugs. Replace if they are badly blackened and sooty.

If spark is good on each cylinder then you may have a fueling problem and would need to turn your attention to removing and cleaning out the carbs properly (this is a professional job, unless you have at least an air compressor). Ideally they should be ultrasonic cleaned.

First take the tank off and charge the battery. Does the battery hold a good voltage? Check for burnt or melted wires and loose connections. If your battery holds charge ok and cables are in good condition and tight, then it may be possible to bypass the solenoid by bridging the two heavy-duty connections using a spanner and check the function of starter motor. If you only get a click, then perhaps you have a burnt out starter. Let us know what you find. Then we can go from there in giving you the more specific advice you need.
pgb123
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by pgb123 »

Great! Thank you so much for the reply. To pull off the tank, I know I need to disconnect the band in the back and pull up. Do I disconnect the fuel by pulling off the two lines in the attached picture? Should I clamp them off first? Do I just pull until they pop off? The petcock has prime, fuel and reserve, but no off position.
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joolstacho
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by joolstacho »

Apart from electrical issues (eeek! you let the smoke out!) your carbs will almost certainly be gummed up due to the bike sitting for years with old fuel in them.
My advice is: First, get a workshop manual -at least then you'll be able to do basic jobs (like remove the fuel tank).
Or, find a mechanic.
pgb123
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by pgb123 »

Many thanks! I read in another post that with the petcock set to "on", the gas shouldn’t leak out because the vacuum seal isn’t activated, so I pulled the gas lines and removed the tank (I later read the procedure in my Haynes manual). Nothing looks melted or burned at a glance. Battery’s charged.

So regarding checking the plugs, do I pull each one and then put it against the crank case and press start to check for spark?

Once I pulled the tank off, I noticed an unattached bundle of cables coming from the front of the bike. There’s also a couple of unattached tubes coming up from under the seat where the battery goes. I’m attaching some pics in case anyone has any ideas. I only had a few minutes with the bike, so I'll do a fuller and closer inspection hopefully this weekend. Just figured everyone loves a good mystery!

Thanks again for the advice!
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joolstacho
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by joolstacho »

Those tubes coming up near the battery platform are battery overflow pipes. But there should be only one, the other one is almost certainly one left over from a previous battery, you can disregard it. They will just go down more or less vertically so any battery fluid overflow would just drip onto the ground instead of chucking battery acid all over your lovely bike!
Certainly before you do anything, pull out the spark plugs and spin the motor over to evacuate any surplus 2-stroke oil that's in there after sitting for years.
When you check for sparks, pull ALL the plugs and then check each one. You want the engine spinning freely, which won't happen if you have other plugs in.
Get a new set of plugs. It's quite possible the ones you have are horribly oiled up after all the previous starting attempts etc.
Check for spark by holding the plug metal body hard against the cylinder head, and spin the motor, -you might want to use extra insulation like using rubber handled pliers to hold the plug/lead. (Some of us conduct electricity better than others).
'Fraid I can't help with that wiring connector (I'm a twin man), but search around to see if there's any other wires 'loose'.
Last edited by joolstacho on Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tz375
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by tz375 »

I don't have a 550 but the only multi pin connector like that is to the gear change indicator/switch. Yours should have a rotary switch on the end of the gear shift drum behind teh sprocket cover. Form there there is a connecting harness that connects at the front to the gear indicator.
Bobf
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by Bobf »

Hi - that connector looks like it should be inside the headlamp and connected up...

However, if the bike was running OK before being laid up, it should have started OK - never use the electric start after a lay-up - the kick start should be enough. Lots of smoke initially is just a bit of 2-stroke oil in the bottom of the crank being burnt off - nothing really unusual. Once the carbs are primed, the engine should start with a few prods. If flooded, hold the throttle fully open when kicking over and it should fire up.....

Just my bit to add....
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by sportston »

Yes. remove all plugs and press start while holding each one in turn against an earth with the plug lead connected to check spark.
Be warned; the plug lead should be carrying approximately 40,000 volts. It is not very high current but can give you an unpleasant shock. Only likely to kill you if you have a weak heart or arrhythmia.
So it is advisable to use rubber handled pliers at least. Don't put your fingers or hands near the other plugs or leads while checking for a spark.
If it turns over on the button, then hopefully your starter is ok.
However.....
If you have flooded the cylinders it will blow out a load of fuel/oil from the plug holes. Beware the possibility of ignited fuel!
I always have an extinguisher handy. Its a good idea to keep one in the garage when working with petrol, grinders etc.
If you have 3 sparking plugs, then you most likely have to turn your attention to cleaning out and possibly reconditioning the carbs. Almost certainly you will have dirt and gummy stuff in there after so many years of standing.
Follow your Haynes manual carefully when rebuilding carbs. Setting the float level accurately is crucial, as is setting the idle air screws correctly.
Since your bike has been standing for a long time, you might find it worth removing and cleaning the fuel tap and at the very least replacing the rubber "cloverleaf in a circle" type gasket (hidden behind the lever).
pgb123
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by pgb123 »

Thanks everyone for your input. I have super limited time to spend with the bike. Fortunately, I was able to get there for a few minutes today.

I used an inline spark plug tester to check the plugs. The spark plug boot was too big for the tester, but I was able to hold it in there to check them. All the plugs sparked. I put them back in only hand tight. I've attached a pic of the first plug, though they all looked the same. Looks pretty good to me compared to what I've seem on the web. But what do I know. Never looked at a spark plug before.

After i put the plugs back in, I tried to start the bike back up. The starter is cranking which is good news. But guess what stupid move I made? Forgot to reattach the fuel lines after I put the tank back on.

Anyway, I'm also attaching some audio of what it sounds like cranking.

Now that I've left the bike, I'm thinking, maybe there isn't enough fuel in the tank. Next time I visit, I'm replacing the seals on the petcock, so I'll fill it up again and try yet again.

By the way, the smoke, it seems, is coming from a small hole in the left muffler (pic attached). It must have just drifted up from under the tank.
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pgb123
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by pgb123 »

Doesn’t seem I can upload the audio. The board won’t let me post mp3 files. Basically, it sounds like the starter is cranking and nothing else. It’s a very tinny motor sound.

If someone knows how I can post the Audubon file, please let me know.
pgb123
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by pgb123 »

joolstacho wrote: Certainly before you do anything, pull out the spark plugs and spin the motor over to evacuate any surplus 2-stroke oil that's in there after sitting for years.
W
Just to be clear, I should pull out all of the plugs, put the tank back on and reattach the fuel and and kick it over a few times? Can I turn it over with the starter? How many times or for how long?
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joolstacho
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by joolstacho »

For these checks, tank off, don't put it back on. Pull sparkplugs out.
Crank the motor either with starter or kickstart, you want to spin it over maybe 10 or 15 rotations, this is just to get any surplus 2-stroke oil pumped out from the crankcase out of the plug holes. As long as your battery is reasonably okay, it won't flatten because there's no compression 'cos the plugs are out.
Don't open the throttle when you do this.

The brownish plug colour is okay. The fact that the plugs aren't oily looking means that there probably isn't a build-up of oil in the crankcase so that's a good sign .(But I'd still get a new set of plugs anyway). You won't get a reliable plug-colour 'reading' unless it's running at road speeds.

It's quite possible that lack of fuel was/is your problem. (Sometimes it can be the most obvious thing).
You want FRESH fuel in the tank. You want fuel getting to the carbs (obviously).

Drain the carb floatbowls by cracking open the overflow screws or the drain plugs (see workshop manual or youtube -no need to completely remove the screws), and also empty your tank.
Put a few litres of nice fresh petrol in the tank and then check that fuel is getting though to the carbs by putting it on reserve and cracking open the carb overflow screws.
Fuel should come out of those, but because of the vacuum system you'll probably need to crank the engine over to 'open' the vacuum so that fuel flows to the carbs. If you do this with the sparkplugs out it won't flatten your battery. (Some carbs have a 'Prime' tap position which allows the fuel to flow, but I don't think these ones do).

Once you know fuel is getting to the carbs, stick the (new) plugs in and start the thing.

(NB I don't have a 550 but a 500 twin, so 550 experts may like to comment).
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by sportston »

joolstacho wrote:For these checks, tank off, don't put it back on. Pull sparkplugs out.
Crank the motor either with starter or kickstart, you want to spin it over maybe 10 or 15 rotations, this is just to get any surplus 2-stroke oil pumped out from the crankcase out of the plug holes. As long as your battery is reasonably okay, it won't flatten because there's no compression 'cos the plugs are out.
Don't open the throttle when you do this.

The brownish plug colour is okay. The fact that the plugs aren't oily looking means that there probably isn't a build-up of oil in the crankcase so that's a good sign .(But I'd still get a new set of plugs anyway). You won't get a reliable plug-colour 'reading' unless it's running at road speeds.

It's quite possible that lack of fuel was/is your problem. (Sometimes it can be the most obvious thing).
You want FRESH fuel in the tank. You want fuel getting to the carbs (obviously).

(Some carbs have a 'Prime' tap position which allows the fuel to flow, but I don't think these ones do).

Once you know fuel is getting to the carbs, stick the (new) plugs in and start the thing.

(NB I don't have a 550 but a 500 twin, so 550 experts may like to comment).
Bear in mind the carb drain screws may be stuck solid if that is the case you might need to remove the carbs and clean them anyway. The later model GT550 does have a prime position.
I agree with everything else Jools said.
Get new plugs; yes
Empty tank; yes
Get fresh fuel in carbs; yes
Check fuel is getting to carbs; yes

But if I may add....
Put fuel tap to "pri" setting whenever you are trying to start after a lay-up. Once running sweetly, return fuel tap to "on" position. When finished playing do not leave in "pri" position unless you wish to have a puddle of fuel on your garage floor when you come down the next morning.
A can of Bradex Easystart sprayed into the air intake while cranking may help you start the bike. It is miraculous stuff! Once started, if it will only run on Easystart then you will have to strip the carbs and clean and rebuild them properly.
(don't run it for ages on Easystart, it could harm your engine. Only use it to get the engine started, then stop spraying!).
Glad to see the smoke is only from the exhaust drain hole. That is nothing to worry about. At least you know it is not from an electrical source now.
Glad to know that you have 3 sparks. That is one thing ticked off your elimination list. Providing your timing is not miles out, then you should find your main problem is fueling related.
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joolstacho
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Re: Inexperienced newbie needs help

Post by joolstacho »

Ah that's good to know the 550 has a PRI position.
Our Aussie version of Easystart spray is called "StartYaBastard" (yes really, and it really works).
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