Clutch Rattle

General discussion about Street two-stroke Suzuki motorcycles.

Moderators: oldjapanesebikes, H2RICK, diamondj, Suzsmokeyallan

dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 630
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by dollydog »

you can if you coat all 4 faces like i said - plus, how many times are you likely to take the clutch cover off? :D
i make my own gaskets anyway, clutch, carb, base, oilpump, even the head gaskets out of 0.3mm copper
sheet. anneal them and re-use time and again. also make my own carb insulators for the bolt on ramair carbs
out of tufnol. takes about an hour each but gives me job satisfaction :D why buy when you can make? :D
cheers, dd.
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
rngdng
AMA Superbike
Posts: 1769
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:47 pm
Location: Blythewood, SC, USA

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by rngdng »

I made my own gasket for the top of a GT750 oil pump. That was a little challenging. I make all my float bowl gaskets from 1/16" viton. They last forever.....even with 10% ethanol.
If you stroke it more than twice; you're playing with it.

Too many bikes, too much time, ENOUGH SPACE, FINALLY! Never enough money.........
dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 630
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by dollydog »

i also put a gasket, with wellseal on the neutral light switch. even new o rings don't seal very well
and a gasket stops any oil leaking out the gearbox. for the few minutes it takes to make and fit,
it's well worth the effort :D
cheers, dd.
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
sportston
Expert racer
Posts: 1119
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:04 pm
Country: England, UK
Suzuki 2-Strokes: FZ50, GP100, RG125 Gamma, GT380, Bandit 1200S

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by sportston »

dollydog wrote:you can if you coat all 4 faces like i said - plus, how many times are you likely to take the clutch cover off? :D
i make my own gaskets anyway, clutch, carb, base, oilpump, even the head gaskets out of 0.3mm copper
sheet. anneal them and re-use time and again. also make my own carb insulators for the bolt on ramair carbs
out of tufnol. takes about an hour each but gives me job satisfaction :D why buy when you can make? :D
cheers, dd.
That is very impressive DD. Old school. I like it!
How do you cut the big hole in the middle for your copper head gaskets?
dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 630
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by dollydog »

trepanning tool :D aka tank cutter - like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Priory-201-C- ... 2682744220" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
before you start you must screw the corners of the plate securely to a block of wood and make sure it's dead flat.
cheers, dd.
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
Vintageman
Expert racer
Posts: 1483
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:38 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: Suz, Yam, Honda, Kaw.
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by Vintageman »

Clutch Rattle no more do what I say next if problem is inner clutch bearing, usually it is even if pristine or fitted per Service Bulletin :shock:

By the updated "Primary Driven Gear Spacer" Suz part# 21251-13E00. It replaced one of the washers as well, because it has a shoulder/integrated washer on one end unlike original. This part is used on T350 and GT250, but also DRZ-250. So , here is a better pick of what new part looks like (see item 5)

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/S ... parts.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is what the original part looks like (See item 2)
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/S ... parts.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The shoulder keeps the clutch basket more stable in two dimensions preventing rattling.
Current Bikes
74 GT250 (T350 upgrade),
76 GT250 (T350 upgrade),
71 T350,
70 T350,
74 GT380,
75 T500,
73 GT550,
75 GT750,
72 Yamaha DS7 (R5 upgrade),
77 Yamaha RD400 (Daytona Cyls),
Vintageman
Expert racer
Posts: 1483
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:38 pm
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: Suz, Yam, Honda, Kaw.
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by Vintageman »

Clutch Rattle no more do what I say next if problem is inner clutch bearing, usually it is even if pristine or fitted per Service Bulletin :shock:

By the updated "Primary Driven Gear Spacer" Suz part# 21251-13E00. It replaced one of the washers as well, because it has a shoulder/integrated washer on one end unlike original. This part is used on T350 and GT250, but also DRZ-250. So , here is a better pick of what new part looks like (see item 5)

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/S ... parts.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is what the original part looks like (See item 2)
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/S ... parts.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The shoulder keeps the clutch basket more stable in two dimensions preventing rattling.
Current Bikes
74 GT250 (T350 upgrade),
76 GT250 (T350 upgrade),
71 T350,
70 T350,
74 GT380,
75 T500,
73 GT550,
75 GT750,
72 Yamaha DS7 (R5 upgrade),
77 Yamaha RD400 (Daytona Cyls),
sportston
Expert racer
Posts: 1119
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:04 pm
Country: England, UK
Suzuki 2-Strokes: FZ50, GP100, RG125 Gamma, GT380, Bandit 1200S

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by sportston »

dollydog wrote:trepanning tool :D aka tank cutter - like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Priory-201-C- ... 2682744220" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
before you start you must screw the corners of the plate securely to a block of wood and make sure it's dead flat.
cheers, dd.
Hmmm. I am looking at that method and wondering how many times I will bugger it up before I get the hang of it....
I guess there is only one way to find out!
What sort of copper sheet do you use? 0.3mm on a roll?
What do you use to cut the edges?
dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 630
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by dollydog »

what do i use to cut the edges? i presume you mean round the stud holes etc? SCISSORS :D decent scissors will easily cut
thin copper, where tin snips tend to curl it up. i ALWAYS cut the centre hole first, followed be the stud holes, followed by the final shaping :D
cheers, dd.
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
sportston
Expert racer
Posts: 1119
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:04 pm
Country: England, UK
Suzuki 2-Strokes: FZ50, GP100, RG125 Gamma, GT380, Bandit 1200S

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by sportston »

dollydog wrote:what do i use to cut the edges? i presume you mean round the stud holes etc? SCISSORS :D decent scissors will easily cut
thin copper, where tin snips tend to curl it up. i ALWAYS cut the centre hole first, followed be the stud holes, followed by the final shaping :D
cheers, dd.
Ok Thanks for the advice. I know what I will be trying if I want to raise the compression ratio of my GT380!
Had a look on ebay, Boy sheet copper is not cheap!
dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 630
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by dollydog »

it most definitely aint cheap :D the first one i made was slightly off centre, so it went in the scrap bag - but after that i got them pretty damned perfect every time. if you know anybody that does laser cutting, take an old gasket to them and your copper sheet and get them to do it. it will be spot on every time, but nowhere near as much fun :D
think i started with a 200mm x 200mm piece 0.3mm thick and made 4 out of it. i used 0.5mm thick on my big bang engine.
cheers, dd.
ps, shouldn't we start a new thread on making gaskets? this is supposed to be a clutch rattle thread :D
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
sportston
Expert racer
Posts: 1119
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:04 pm
Country: England, UK
Suzuki 2-Strokes: FZ50, GP100, RG125 Gamma, GT380, Bandit 1200S

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by sportston »

dollydog wrote: ps, shouldn't we start a new thread on making gaskets? this is supposed to be a clutch rattle thread :D
Yes that is a good idea. Perhaps you could add a few pics of your gaskets or process.
New topic to be found here.... viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13132
and apologies for the hijack.
lewis1956
On the street
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:03 am
Country: USA
Suzuki 2-Strokes: 1970 T350 Now; TS250, GT380, TM400 Past
Location: Yorba Linda, CA

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by lewis1956 »

well finally got the new bushing and only ground off a tad, used just a smearing of black permatex at the bottom of the clutch cover and it now seems to work fine.....no more rattle or leak.....originally ordered the suggested sealant from the UK but it couldn't get through customs for some reason...do appreciate all your suggestions and help
sportston
Expert racer
Posts: 1119
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:04 pm
Country: England, UK
Suzuki 2-Strokes: FZ50, GP100, RG125 Gamma, GT380, Bandit 1200S

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by sportston »

lewis1956 wrote:originally ordered the suggested sealant from the UK but it couldn't get through customs for some reason...do appreciate all your suggestions and help
Glad you got it sorted. You can probably find the gasket sealants in the USA on ebay too. Certainly threebond you can
dollydog
Yeah Man, the Interstate
Posts: 630
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 am
Country: england
Suzuki 2-Strokes: several gt250 ramairs

Re: Clutch Rattle

Post by dollydog »

threebond is now 1184, which is the same as the old stuff we used to use, but no lead in it.
i've used it on several crankcases and it works fine :D
cheers, dd.
GTS250 road registered. TS250 engine, Ramair frame.
GT250 big bang road registered. Both pistons fire the same time. USD forks.
GT285 road registered. Overbored - 58mm and TS125 +2 pistons fitted.
GT10 road registered. '65 T10 engine, GT250 frame.
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