Bought my first 2 stroke - started for a bit & now doesnt :(

[Coyote]

I want back a few posts to have another look at the shrapnel picture. The I realized I am looking at the starter motor and not the clutch. I have to admit, that's a first for me. I have never seen a starter motor self destruct.. Again there were 2 manufacturers of these motors. Nippon Denso and Kokusan. You can use either one (complete) but the parts are not interchangeable between the 2.

[tz375]

I agree Chris, It's not common to see the planetary gears self destruct like that. Starter needs to be replaced.

The crank bearing failure is less uncommon. The cages break up and after that, all manner of self destruction follows. The alternator rotor can be removed and bearing pressed off and replaced but it's better to have the crank pressed apart and rebuilt with new seals. I use Bill Bune in MN and have have nothing but great service there.

[bpapachr]

1) How does a bearing get that bad? That's horrible!

2) the clutch release rods have a rounded end and a flat end. Both rounded ends go toward the clutch. Short rod first. There are 2 seals the longer rod pass through. The rod needs to be smooth and nick free in the seal areas.

3) That gear is toast. This thing actually ran? See #4.

4) This is the main part of the starter clutch. I am amazed that it is still together.. Usually the roller followers and springs turn to shrapnel. The hub that the rollers ride in is usually mangled as well. You need this assembly if you plan to use the electric starter. There are not suoppsed to be threads in the holes. In order from the back, there is a 3 hole sheet metal cover, then the roller assembly. These parts mount to the back of the primary gear with 3 huge phillips head screws. In case you don't know, the primary gear is the big one attached to the back of the clutch basket. I have come to the conclusion I have no idea what gear that is in pic 3. An idler gear maybe? It's been too many years since I have messed with the older style. I have real photos of the assembly, but it will take me hours to find them.

5) That is in the correct position. If you get those out of position, the bike will have only first gear, or it will shift up but not down

Which gear is toast?? I don't understand...The gear you see is the one that goes over that clutch hub with springs and followers. I see what your saying about the order but those philips head screws just sat there and didnt connect to anything, they are completely worn down...I'm printing out diagrams from the parts manual to try and piece it together better. I'll have a better understanding when I get into the garage tonight after work.

[Coyote]

Yes, it's the starter clutch gear in pic#3. It should be smooth with no features or other marks. I don't know what happened to that one. I've never seen anything like it I can't imagine that happening even if it was not together right, and obviously it was not.

[Coyote]

Found my old photo. These are the basic components. On the left is the starter gear. The hub in the center of it is pressed in at the factory under tremendous pressure. Thr picture you posted looked like that hub was not there. I don't know how it could ever come apart.
Anyway, the center piece with the 3 rollers fits over the hub on the starter gear. The sheet metal part on the right captures the roller piece and both screw to the primary gear on the back of the clutch basket with giant screws. If I recall correctly, thee smaller bearing fits inside the starter gear and the larger one fits over a separate bushing not shown. Also not shown are 2 spacer / thrust washers.
When the electric starter kicks in, the starter gear turns in a direction that locks the three rollers to the hub on the starter gear. When the motor starts, it our runs the rollers and the starter gear making the rollers free. The rest of the time, they do nothing for a living. Hope this photo helps.

[pearljam724]

If the motor loses power after warm up. The timing is off. Purchase a dial gauge. That or the battery is no good. Properly test the battery.

[Suzukidave]

I wonder .. could metal from the starter clutch problem also destroyed the crank bearing . Or is it completely separate ?

[Coyote]

It's separate. It's all enclosed in the clutch housing behind the clutch. The only part of the crank in this area is the main gear on the right end. However, metal shards can easily enter the transmission as they share a common sump. OH the joy

[bpapachr]

Does anyone have an extra starter clutch gear laying around? I'm trying to figure out if the hub is just laying on the transmission sprocket but it doesn't seem like it. This would explain why the marks and bolts and everything was grinded to dust in here


The three screws broke off into the clutch basket housing and I had to tap those out today

[bpapachr]

So I did some more digging today and wanted to get your guys input. The first picture above shows the piece that's supposed to be pressed into the starter clutch gear. Its sitting on the counter shaft. When I put them together there is a small amount of play but its doesn't take much force to pop in and out. Is this something I can weld together or do I need to purchase a whole new set up?

[Coyote]

It would have to have a deep 'V' machined between the 2 pieces to be welded correctly. Here is another fix that yo can do at home - provided the pieces aren't hardened. I hope I can explain it.
First, clean both parts with thinner so they are squeaky clean and oil free. Put the 2 pieces together the way there supposed to be. Use a little super glue and let it seep between the seams. This will help hold it together while you do the important steps.
Now, directly in the seam, drill and tap a hole.. 8mm should do. Get what I mean? Half the threads are in one piece and half the threads in the other. Go to the hardware store and buy 3 8mm set screws. Set screws have no head and a socket for an allen wrench in the screw. Get some lock-tite (thread locker) if you don't have any. At home, coat one of the set screws with the thread locker and drive it in. It doesn't have to be real tight.as it really isn't holding anything. Now repeat the drill and tap in 2 more places equally spaced around the seam and install the screws.
Did many repairs like this in the machine shop I worked in for 30 years.

[bpapachr]

Found my old photo. These are the basic components. On the left is the starter gear. The hub in the center of it is pressed in at the factory under tremendous pressure. Thr picture you posted looked like that hub was not there. I don't know how it could ever come apart.
Anyway, the center piece with the 3 rollers fits over the hub on the starter gear. The sheet metal part on the right captures the roller piece and both screw to the primary gear on the back of the clutch basket with giant screws. If I recall correctly, thee smaller bearing fits inside the starter gear and the larger one fits over a separate bushing not shown. Also not shown are 2 spacer / thrust washers.
When the electric starter kicks in, the starter gear turns in a direction that locks the three rollers to the hub on the starter gear. When the motor starts, it our runs the rollers and the starter gear making the rollers free. The rest of the time, they do nothing for a living. Hope this photo helps.

In this picture there is a black plastic oil seal from what it looks like. I can't seem to find out where this comes from or goes from the parts manual diagrams. I am looking at the diagrams and from what I can tell, I have the thrust washers, and all the other pieces to put the clutch back together except for that. On one of the diagrams is part number 09284-10002, its an oil seal that looks like it goes on top of the clutch assembly.

Its number 25 in the picture above...any insight would be great!


P.S. The idea below is genius! Going to get the drill bit and set screws today to give it a shot.

Thanks again

[Alan H]

Number 25 fits into a recess in the clutch cover.

[Coyote]

Yep. It's a little old thing. It acts as a guide for the exposed end of the clutch push piece,. It doesn't seal anything. Just push it in flush with your thumb. There is a small space behind it that traps oil and keeps it well lubed. Fits in the cover all by itself

[bpapachr]

Can anyone suggest a good engine degreaser? I want to soak all these parts and get them surgically clean. I started stripping the old gaskets and some of the engine casings but want to buy some 5 gallon buckets and soak these bigger parts over night and spray them down. Ive seen a lot of your guys bikes on here and they look very very clean and would really like to get the bike looking that great.

Any suggestions are appreciated.