TR500 water cooled cylinder - XR05

[Suzukidave]

This looks like the same type block mounted up .

[tz375]

I just checked Battersby to see what it said in Team Suzuki.According to that book, the TR500II was still air cooled for 1972. In 1973 watercooling was introduced on the TR500III. It was still called the III through 74 & 75 when it was dropped.

It had 5 speeds for most of 73 and is listed as 6 speeds for 74/5.

I can't confirm or deny that, I'm just reporting what I read and passing it on. Shannon may have more accurate or up to date info. I've only ever had one XR05 in my possession and that was a long time ago.

It looked very much like Dave's pictures, but the shocks were more upright.

It had 6 speeds, 38mm carbs, water cooling and looked much like the barrel in those pictures. It was sand cast as Shannon reported and had two identical pistons with windows in the rear face to connect to the extra boost port.

It was ex Bill Horsman, but I believe that it was one he imported via WA and was not the one he had raced back in the day.

Casting number on the barrel was 1121C XR05 25 the number cast into the head was 11111 XR05 25 according to my skimpy notes.

I had carb settings from Neville Doyle and Michael Pettifer and still never got the beast to fire in anger - probably just as well!

[shannon]

you are correct muzza..


they are from 74-75 , or actually may be early works water cooled barrells, as the part number doesnt seem to line up with my lists.

its a little confusing to label the bikes but I class the original tr500's with magneto-points as mk1 68-70.. mk2 71 to 72 .. mk3 (watercooled-upright shocks) late 72-73 and mk4 (watercooled-lay down shocks) 74-75. the mk4 frame and rolling stock basically being a mk1 RG500 (xr14)..
There is such a significant change between the 2 watercooled models ( brakes,calipers, gearbox,barrells,rear swingarm,shocks, etc) that is would be odd to class them as both mkIII's
The TR's were dropped in 74..no bikes were assembled from the factory in 75 but remainig bikes were still available ex-japan stock..
Complete engines and spares made available until late 79-80, so there is still a bit of watercooled spares around, especially in Italy.

the first of the watercooled production tr barrells did fit straight on to the air cooled cases as muzza stated..

i have some parts lists and some factory running sheets for the mk3 or 4. i will scan and post.


I also have a mk3-4 bike coming my way shortly so i will make some comparisons.

[muzza]

I think descriptions varied depending on common usage......for us the TR500 barrels were air cooled race barrels, the first set of w/c barrels were TR500II (and I have a Suzuki specs sheet describing it as the Tr500II) and then the square barrels were the TR500III.

Battersby's book has a misprint I think...in my edition there is no TR500II
I will write to Ray and ask him what he can recall.

Might as well get a common set of descriptions so we don't get confused.

Still as I said, the barrels purchased are the 3rd model and thus T500 cases need slight modification to suit.

[muzza]

Ok, hopefully for the sake of clarity, i have had discussions with Ray battersby and also dug out some more info.

I am convinced that the air-cooled models were only ever known as the TR500. There was no MkI and there never is except in retrospect when a MkII is released. the early air-cooled bikes were referred to on the papers I have as the 1969 TR500 or the 1970 TR500 or the 1971 TR500 etc.

I have photos and notes on a TR500 MkII which I photographed many years ago when i interviewed the owner for a magazine article I was writing. The owner referred to it as the TR500MkII and had documentation to that effect which I never copied way back in those days..damn it!

See pics here...note the round w/c barrels. this bike was ridden to victory in the 1973/74 Marlboro series in NZ.



Pics from: http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/maps/ ... ts/24.html

As well the local Suzuki dealer brought a Tr500 MkII out in 1973 and it had the round barrels and upright shocks. It was ridden by Manx GP winner Dennis Craine.

I also have a factory paper which refers to the 1973 TR500 MkII ........see following......



The TR500MkIII came out in 1974 and 1975 with forward sloping rear shocks, square barrels and other mods.

So Ray is checking whether his book has a misprint re the 1973 TR500. he is writing to Martyn Ogborne who is in Hammatsu at the moment and also to Barry Hart (ex-Barton Engineering) in case he still has data (or knowledge) to provide an answer.

The Suzuki paper above certainly verifies for me that the 1973 water-cooled TR500 was known as the TR500MkII.

It is possible some of the air cooled bikes were known as MkIIs but I have never seen any specs sheets which refer to them as such and Ray Battersby doesn't either. Doesn't really matter as long as we know what we are talking about. Pretty rare to see these things these days.

[muzza]

Ray Battersby has now sent me an email saying...

"My working hypothesis based on these two documents is:

* Initial machines were called TR500 (No Mark I because at that time nobody anticipated a Mark II)
* Some time between Feb 9th and Nov 19th 1973, the water cooled TR500
arrived which SMC called a TR500-II
* At a future date, another significant change came along and
the model name was changed to TR500-III.

I guess the book will need amendment as the 1973 TR500 is a TR500II not a TR500III. But I feel this debate could rage and rage and yet it really doesn't amtter.

personally I love Ray's book and recommend it to anyone who loves Suzis. His book has been reprinted and is available here...

http://www.teamsuzuki.co.uk/

[muzza]

Suzukidave....

do you mind if I post those pics of the TR500III on my webpage to accompany the other shots?

thanks

Muzz

[tz375]

Thanks Muzza. That all makes sense.

[Suzukidave]

Suzukidave....

do you mind if I post those pics of the TR500III on my webpage to accompany the other shots?

thanks

Muzz

Sure Muzza , but i really couldnt tell ya where i picked them up I also have more shots of this bike .

[tz375]

Dave,

It was on ebay August 2007

[Suzukidave]

Dave,

It was on ebay August 2007

Yep Richard , your mind is way better than mine .. but i already knew that .

[muzza]

Dave

thanks mate, could you throw any extra shots you have my way please?

muzza@ozebook.com

cheers

muzz

[shannon]

ok.. I have dug up my parts list for the 75 model TR500 and it confirms the following.

11210XR0526 cylinder
12110XR0524 piston
11241XR0525 Gasket, cylinder
11141XR0529 gasket, cylinder head
12141-30010 ring
12151-15000 pin, piston
09263-18005 bearing, piston pin

and a factory spec sheet !!!!

[muzza]

yup. the last of the production factory water cooled barrels.....

Now if the factory had only made use of that lovely frame and body work and w/cooled motor and given us a 135kg+ 75HP w/c road bike...that would have been nice.

Wasted opportunity.

[diamondj]

Guys,

Thanks for the research! Now if I can just find a head for these cylinders...

Muzza - what would the world have been if Suzuki had stuck with the T500 (and two strokes in general) few more years, skipped developing the RE5, and the USA hadn't outlawed 2 stroke street bikes by '85? I guess we'll never know although I think the sweet Bimota SB1 gives a decent glimpse of what Suzuki could have accomplished with the T500 had they been inclined to develop it further.

Then again the RG500 was a sweet machine in it's own right and there are a few registered and plated for street duty here.....

Jim