Sound familiar???

[jkevinlilly]

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled,
public debt should be reduced,
the arrogance of officialdom should be
tempered and controlled,
and the assistance to foreign lands should
be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt.
People must again learn to
work, instead of living on public assistance."

- Cicero - 55 BC

Kevin

[oldjapanesebikes]

If I recall correctly, much like modern day politicians, Cicero was known for talking a good line so long as what he espoused didn't have to apply to him or his followers . He was eventually executed twleve years later in 43 BC.

[Joiseygirl]

I don't have the answers but I know that something has to give.
Things can't continue the way they are. Damn times are rough! Everywhere!

[Madbuffalo]

Wow that surprised me when I saw the year. Ancient Rome prospered for 1000 years until it eventually collapsed under it's own weight and was invaded. Makes me wonder.

[two-stroke-brit]

dajavue eh

"and what have the romans ever done for us"




isnt google brill.

[jkevinlilly]

I don't have the answers but I know that something has to give.
Things can't continue the way they are. Damn times are rough! Everywhere!

I totally understand. I have a daughter/son in law with two kids, both of them have Bachelor degrees, they do not waste money, and still just barely scrape by financially.

Kevin

[tz375]

The funny thing with all that is that we know we have to cut the deficit and a balanced budget simply means continuing to spend 100% of income. We actually have to have expenditures at much less than revenues over the long run to bring down the debt. That was done up to the Reagan administration which started a long term upwards trend. During Clinton's time it came down slightly and after that it went to heck. I'm not pointing at those Presidents because the US economy is a lot more that two guys. They have a huge influence on the outcomes but are not the whole picture.

The Tea baggers (they are not a Party as such so I'm not sure what the correct term should be) have made a loud point that I think everyone agrees with, but no one wanted to talk about, and that's the state of the deficit and the fact that we need to address it. Their "solution" lack economic basis, but they did say what needed to be said, regardless of their motivation.

Democrats are also right that we can't throw out the social justice issues but they still need to address the cost drivers and to propose substantive changes to the system of healthcare which is just too expensive. On the other side, giving away taxes to companies and rich people makes no sense. And that's what those tax breaks are - they are giving away taxes to people and that's fundamentally another form of spending. The Dems need to start thinking about a Tax CUT for most people i.e. a reduction in rates coupled to a revision to the tax code that eliminates most of the tax spending. Out of say $1T of tax spending cuts they could perhaps put say $500Bn back into circulation to boost economic growth and that would pay for itself within 2 years.

I'm not in favor of any one approach at the expense of the other, but we do need to have a more adult conversation and less of the scary talk from both sides.

Just as an aside, how did we manage to get a congress with so many new people in it with little or no public service experience and little or no government experience? Not being part of the system is great but how does it function if so many new people don't have any idea how things work and how to get things done? It's an interesting situation. And at a State level too. That is fascinating to see and we can't say that much of a reaction was a normal backlash to an incumbent or to one side or the other. Something appears to have changed fundamentally in US politics and I have no idea what it is, but it's intriguing.

[Joiseygirl]

Like I said before, I don't have the solution to this mess we're in, nor are we supposed to be talking politics on this forum, but for a start, we need to bring back manufacturing to America in order to begin to create and provide jobs for the American people. And in the same breath, we as a people, need to get off our high horses and fill those positions instead of being too proud to accept positions at the lower paying end of the spectrum. I've seen so many people turn down positions because the pay wasn't "high enough", as I see it, if your not working and on unemployment or public assistance, take the job. It's far better than sitting at home waiting for a handout to come your way.

That's my two cents no need for reproach.

[johnakay]

Like I said before, I don't have the solution to this mess we're in, nor are we supposed to be talking politics on this forum,
I agree with you on this one joiseygirl .
it will only aggravate things.
we've had all this before and that's why add men decided to put this in general....For discussion of all general things. Keep it clean folks. No politics or religion

[Joiseygirl]

we've had all this before and that's why add men decided to put this in general....For discussion of all general things. Keep it clean folks. No politics or religion[/quote]

Since I’ve broken the rule already let me extend myself and state that I am not a devout catholic, but non- the-less catholic, I mostly believe in the golden rule, and that Karma is a bitch!

That dear John, about covers it. : )


BTW - Would you keep your voice down, people are sleeping in here. : )

[tz375]

It's not politics, it's economics. We have to start talking about what we are doing to fix teh problem and that starts with teh recognition that there is a problem.

So far we have avoided name calling or bashing politicians, though that can't be far away.

Why is it that people are so afraid to discuss the underlying issues and to get together to talk about solutions? That is part of the problem here - we want it all to go away and for "someone else" to fix things. Do we really think that politicians with no experience in economics or how public service works will come up with a comprehensive solution? Do we live in hope that the more experienced voices will somehow find a way to a solution and we'll all be saved?

I work with small and large corporations to improve their profits and sales and I'm as capitalist as the next guy, but there's no way I'd let those companies run the country or significantly influence the outcome because their interests and the public interest overlap in places but they are very different. They are stakeholders nd their input is necessary as one voice in the discussion.

It's funny to me to see the two sides of an interesting phenomenon. On the one hand I hear platitudes about the greatest country on earth and American exceptionalism and on the other hand I look at the state of Congress and how we get the government we deserve and that we have teh best government that money can buy and so on.

The dichotomy is easy to understand. In part it's because we have forgotten how to be involved and how to make a difference. We have come to accept that it's the way things are and agree to not rock the boat. Who is to blame for the malaise? Republicans, tea baggers, Democrats? Well YES to all the above but realistically the problem is us.

Do we have all the solutions? Individually, NO. but does that stop us from doing a little research to start to find out what people are saying and why? Does it stop us looking at say Wikipedia to see what the deficit is and why we have it? Does t stop us from choosing one item we feel strongly about and finding out more about it? Does it stop us from writing to our representatives at a state and local and federal level? Does it stop us from voting? Does it stop us from doing some simple fact checking to see if our favorite news channel or web site is actually correct or if it's distorting things again to create an emotional reaction? Of course not. There are cynical people that hope that some of us don't vote and don't find out the facts. Remember the old Reagan saying - Trust but verify? Check what you read and form your own opinion.

Most people here have a right to vote and with that right comes the responsibility to work out who they want to vote for and why.

Or we can stay at home and yell at the TV. You have that choice.

[Joiseygirl]

Very well said TZ75, you should be a newspaper columnist!

[tz375]

Thanks. I was hoping to get my own TV show.....

[johnakay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zruGBWLk9s8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Barry S.]

Calling the Tea Party, teabaggers is name calling, Google teabagging to see what it really is.