Countdown to winter.

jkevinlilly · Post by **jkevinlilly** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:01 am

I normally leave mine with a full tank of gas, so there is not much of a airspace for condensate to develop, and start it and run it for few minutes every once in a while.

Kevin

rngdng · Post by **rngdng** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:32 am

You souther guys really frost my britches. Not that you would know what's that's like.

Well, it's not riding weather all year, but it rarely snows, so with good gear most of the year is OK.

For you guys up North, I have to ask two questions:

1) Do you own a car that runs?

2) Why are you still there? Point car South and drive; the Geese do it.......

Lane

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:43 am

I might occasionally use the kick starter to turn an engine over but I don't feel it's necessary. I'll also squeeze the brake levers once in awhile in the assumption that some type of motion can't hurt. I've never worried about jacking tires off of cold pavement either. I once stored a Triumph for 18 months by putting stabilizer in the gas and a bit of oil in the cylinders. It started on the 2nd kick.

If you start an engine periodically it's crucial that it be thoroughly warmed up but I think the negatives outweigh the positives. For example, you might drive any moisture out of the oil and exhaust system but because it's presumably colder than when you stored the bike in the first place, there's a good chance more moisture will accumulate than what you drove out . Maybe I'm all wet (sorry) but I've never done it.

My biggest concern is the impact of ethanol in gasoline. I don't think it'll be an issue for bikes with steel tanks but anything using fiberglass will need special care.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:52 am

rngdng wrote: Well, it's not riding weather all year, but it rarely snows, so with good gear most of the year is OK.

For you guys up North, I have to ask two questions:

1) Do you own a car that runs?

2) Why are you still there? Point car South and drive; the Geese do it.......

Lane

Lane, sadly we all have to have cars. The closest I came one year was when I was living in Quebec 20+ years ago, newly divorced, with no car. I had fleeting thoughts of riding all year (I knew a guy with a 650 Yamaha who did this using studded tires.) I was ice racing at the time and knew about tires, but decided that was insane, considering that it wasn't unusual to have snow every night. My riding buddy gave me an old chevy we used to pull my dirt bike trailer and that got me through.

I keep telling my wife (who doesn't like the cold) that we need a winter place in S.C. but so far she hasn't taken the bait....

Craig380 · Post by **Craig380** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:54 am

Frank wrote:I might occasionally use the kick starter to turn an engine over but I don't feel it's necessary. I'll also squeeze the brake levers once in awhile in the assumption that some type of motion can't hurt. I've never worried about jacking tires off of cold pavement either. I once stored a Triumph for 18 months by putting stabilizer in the gas and a bit of oil in the cylinders. It started on the 2nd kick.

If you start an engine periodically it's crucial that it be thoroughly warmed up but I think the negatives outweigh the positives. For example, you might drive any moisture out of the oil and exhaust system but because it's presumably colder than when you stored the bike in the first place, there's a good chance more moisture will accumulate than what you drove out . Maybe I'm all wet (sorry) but I've never done it.

I tend to turn mine gently on the kick once every coupla weeks ... I like to think it re-coats the oil film around the bottom end.

3 years back I had the top end stripped for 6 weeks in warm weather, and there was still a good film of oil mix on the flywheels and rods when I came to rebuild so it certainly should not dry out in winter temperatures ...

johnakay · Post by **johnakay** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:19 am

it won't do any harm by mixing a little two stroke in the tank.

jkevinlilly · Post by **jkevinlilly** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:22 pm

For you guys up North, I have to ask two questions:

1) Do you own a car that runs?

2) Why are you still there? Point car South and drive; the Geese do it.......

1) Yep.

2) What, and leave paradise?????

Kevin

H2RICK · Post by **H2RICK** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:30 pm

If you start an engine periodically it's crucial that it be thoroughly warmed up but I think the negatives outweigh the positives. For example, you might drive any moisture out of the oil and exhaust system but because it's presumably colder than when you stored the bike in the first place, there's a good chance more moisture will accumulate than what you drove out . Maybe I'm all wet (sorry) but I've never done it.

Frank, you're absolutely right. This is all basic physics and chemistry.
To simplify, most water comes into the engine with the intake air stream. To drive off the condensed water in the oil, you have to heat the oil to above 100*C (212*F) bulk temperature so that the water boils off and goes out the crankcase breather vent. If the oil does NOT reach that temperature then you stand a good chance of having MORE water condense into the oil when the engine cools off after a 5 or 10 minute "warmup" than you had BEFORE you started the engine.
Yes, all modern oils since about 1964 contain a decent amount of water dispersant additive but......there is only so much of that dispersant in a given quantity of oil. It can only hold so much water in suspension. When the "water holding limit" is exceeded you will get liquid water in your sump and/or gearbox. This is one of the main reasons you should change ANY oil on a regular basis. This is also one of the reasons you should change your oil BEFORE you put your bike into storage for any extended period of more than 60 days or so. Two stroke oils also contain a water dispersant but not in anywhere near the quantities found in four stroke oils.
Another reason to change oil before storage AND a reason NOT to run the engine for short periods during storage is that byproducts of combustion combine with any moisture in the oil and/or the crankcase to form nasty acids. These acids WILL attack all metals present in any motorcycle.
Yes, oils have an acid neutralizer (called a "base", for those who skipped chem classes) in their additive packages but......again, there is only so much of this neutralizer in a given quantity of oil.....and two stroke oils contain very little acid neutralizers because they are not expected to have to cope with large amounts of acids, being used only once.
When the acids attack the metals in your engine, your close tolerances
become loose tolerances.
I could go on for quite a while yet......but these are the basics of the whole thing. Scroll down this page http://www.3cyl.com/mraxl/gt/index.htm to the "How To" section to read Uncle H2's world famous writeups on oils for strokers.

jkevinlilly · Post by **jkevinlilly** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:27 pm

Damn. I may have to change my routine.

But just kicking it over a few times is not near as much fun as starting the bike up and letting run for a while and smoke up the whole place.

Kevin

markj · Post by **markj** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:33 pm

rngdng wrote:
You souther guys really frost my britches. Not that you would know what's that's like.
Well, it's not riding weather all year, but it rarely snows, so with good gear most of the year is OK.

For you guys up North, I have to ask two questions:

1) Do you own a car that runs?

2) Why are you still there? Point car South and drive; the Geese do it.......

Lane

The older I get the more that's sounding better and better. If it weren't for skiing I don't know what I'd do withmyself in the winter.

debby · Post by **debby** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:09 pm

markj wrote: The older I get the more that's sounding better and better. If it weren't for skiing I don't know what I'd do withmyself in the winter.

Me too. I bought another ski pass this year so I guess I might as well use it. Plus this is where the job is.

It's about time to pickle my T500 for the winter. I'm hoping to take it out this weekend for the last ride this year.

Debby

rngdng · Post by **rngdng** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:05 am

The older I get the more that's sounding better and better. If it weren't for skiing I don't know what I'd do withmyself in the winter.

You don't need to ski down here....you can go riding in the winter.

Lane

Triplerocky · Post by **Triplerocky** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:42 am

Just today I done a 70 km. ride to try the black GT380 after pistons & rings cleaning....windy from south, but sunny, 16° C.
I think to stretch the season almost to Christmas.
Who says that overheating is a bad thing at all??

H2RICK · Post by **H2RICK** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:11 pm

Who says that overheating is a bad thing at all??

Well, Rocky, I hope to NEVER have to use "overheating" and "engine" in the same sentence.

Not to hijack this thread, but......

Rocky, if you mean "global warming", that's a whole 'nother scenario......if it is happening at all. I'm a real sceptic on the whole so-called "climate change" thing.
First it was "global warming"....then "global cooling".....then the "hole in ozone layer"....then the ice caps were "melting". These enviro-phreaks can't seem to make up their collective "minds"......so they settled on "climate change" so that no matter what happens, they'll be right. Between the media and these limp-noodle so-called scientists YOU, the taxpayer, are getting bent over seriously badly.
Check out some "inconvenient truths" at this site
http://www.friendsofscience.org/......and NO apologies to algore whatsoever.

tz375 · Post by **tz375** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:35 pm

Try explaining to Australians that the hole in the Ozone layer is a hoax. Despite rising UV levels, lack of rain etc.

Or explain it to the people of iceland who almost have no ice left.

Or to the people measuring glacier depth

Or to polar bears who are running out of habitat.

Let's get real here people. We are seeing a change to weather patterns that are partly natural and partly from human activity and that damage we have to at least mitigate.

Anyone who believes we can continue to burn up the world's resources with impunity is a part of the problem.

We can choose to be part of the solution or part of the problem. At the moment we have some choices left. We should learn to use them wisely.

Now I'm going to take my 20MPG smelly two stroke for a ride.