The big three debacle

[Suzsmokeyallan]

I had mentioned this present issue about the american auto industry to a few people earlier in the year and was told a resounding "Never".
So now its coming to bear fruit what do you all on the board think about it.
Any ideas comments etc??, lets share some views

[chainsaw]

let them file for bankruptcy and reorganize with all NEW management and a new business strategy. It has to be painfully obvious the current managers and strategy is a failure. business failure IS capitalism as it is supposed to work. Not gov bailouts.

dissolve the unions that helped get them into this mess by keeping bad apples and raising pay rates so high that they are no longer competative with the japs and such.

[Suzsmokeyallan]

Well to add to the problem today the big wigs all flew in to a meeting on their own private jets costing the company the tune of $20.000.00 each.
They couldnt take a first class ticket on a regular old plane cause that just wont do, oh boy these a**holes just dont get it, but they will when they have no more luxury well padded jobs.
As for the UAW, the cause was good for unscrupulous company practices YEARS ago, but thats just it,,, it was years ago.
Now they are an entity unto themselves and will die a long overdue death.
The fat cats can drown in their own mess and that will be good for them, who i REALLY care about is the 'worker' at the bottom to always gets to shovel the sh** falling from way above.

[muzza]

well they have sucked up gov't money and subsidies around the world if not in the USA. Then they cream off the cash and pocket it themselves while giving themselves lucrative perks and trips and have their homes and holiday houses built built by the employees on the business thankyou.

They love capitalism while it works for them and then scream for taxpayer bailouts when it doesn't.

For generations they have bought up and closed public transport utilities and scrapped more clean car technology while churning out gas guzzlers no-one needs and taking handouts from the oil industry.

If they were serious you'd take them serious. Unfortunately they have power and influence over the pollies (who owe their election to them) and taxpayer money will be poured after bad.

About time they produced cars that made sense in our current environmental mess, oil costs and financial reality!

[advant63]

i heard (can't confirm) that a condition of the bailout was that no bonus cheques be drawn. also no supplied parts be sourced outside the country.

[muzza]

"also no supplied parts be sourced outside the country."

So why is Australia wasting money bythrowing 6.2 billion dollars into the bailout of the car companies? Sounds like we are just being taken for a ride.

[Wayne Meuir]

As ugly as this is, it is probably the lesser of two evils to bail them out. If GM alone does not get bailed out, the report is that 3 MILLION jobs will be lost. GM employees, Suppliers, Advertising agents, etc, etc, etc. This country cannot stand that right now. Our Economy will never recover until unemployment gets back under control because the world's economy depends on consumer spending to survive and if consumers ain't buying anything, well, you get the picture. AND if 3 Million people hit the unemployment lines at the same time, the government will have to spend the bail out money anyway paying unemployment benefits, medical care for those who don't have jobs, etc, and the economy will be damaged even further.

I think that with the bail out money needs to come some SERIOUS consequences to those at the top like, 50% Pay cuts, no stock options, no quarterly bonuses, etc. and I think the Union should have to negotiate their pay/benefits downward to reflect reality. Additionally, they should have to meet mileage and emissions demands by the 2010 model year even if it means that they have to quit building Escalades, Hummers, and other gas guzzling wehicles and turn those factories into smart car factories.

My son works with a guy at the Fire Department whose Father works at GM in Arlington, Texas. He puts lug nuts on the right side of SUV's all day. He does not have to mount the wheel, a machine does that. Basically he takes an air wrench and puts on 10/12 lug nuts on each car that comes by. $40.00 per hour. A trained monkey can do that job!

Wayne

[Arne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GIisWJJG28

[muzza]

I just saw on the news...GM is making a killing in China...car sales have gone through the roof.....nearly 9 million this year vs 16 million in the US.
they have 20,000 workers in China and pay them peanuts......again a case of where will the billions of bailout really go? Will GM opt to make 1000s and 1000s of car in China and use cheap labour or will they build in a declining market in the US and pay real wages? Go figure.....and if your Government bails out GM etc make sure someone is watching where the money is spent.

In Oz for example the car makers Ford and GM mainly are being bailed out with billions of dollars......most of which will not stay in oz but go to swell the corporate coffers in the US. Don't expect any of that money to be used to save anyone's job, after all they can always ask the taxpayer to bail them out.

basically these big multi-national companies have a finger in the pie all over the world......don't expect them to be patriotic citizens because they are not!

[rngdng]

They love capitalism while it works for them and then scream for taxpayer bailouts when it doesn't.

That sorta reminds me of HD's response to racing. When you can't win anymore lobby for a rule change to make you competitive again! Of course HD got bailed out, too didn't they.......


Lane

[MikeH1A]

Sorta sounds like the British motorcycle industry in the 60's and 70's - lotsa faults and probably shouldn't have been going as long as it had.

If capitalism is the basis of the good old US of A, surely the answer of what might/will/should happen is right there?

[jeff g]

I think that with the bail out money needs to come some SERIOUS consequences to those at the top like, 50% Pay cuts, no stock options, no quarterly bonuses, etc.
Wayne

Screw that!!! When Chrysler got bailed out 25 years ago, Lee Iacocca volunteered to take $1.00 per year until the company got back on it's feet. I guarantee that Wagoner has enough left from the $20 million+ he was paid last year to carry him through the next year or 2.

[rngdng]

I heard it said on the news today that they might talk to the big three again, when the CEOs fly to Washington on commercial airlines, and come with a plan.


Lane

[advant63]

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189
they have the ability to be productive and profitable, but choose not to.
opel (gm) production is similar.

[Suzsmokeyallan]

What does the last part of that video make a comment about???? "Only if the UAW would allow it" Hmmmm where did i hear those words before,, Better yet, where do you need to go see the results of their so called track record on good intentions??? just take a drive through Detroit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Dont you notice anything????