Real Gasoline

[gdh12bike]

Thanks for the pure-gas link. Strange, all sorts of very small towns in Virginia have it, but here in Charlottesville, not a one is listed. I wonder what is up with that?

[H2RICK]

I stand corrected, Ian. I wasn't aware the Feds had snuck that in on us.
Why are the sellers not required by law to put individual stickers on each grade on the pump stating that the fuel contains ethanol ??

I notice that other provinces and many states in the US have such stickers so the customer can make an informed choice as to the fuel he uses.

[Suzsmokeyallan]

Ian what I was referring to was I noticed a lot of those small stations in B.C with no major brand name seemed to have what appeared to be no blended fuel.
So is it a mandatory law in B.C that you must have ethanol % decals displayed on the pumps or such if its sold at the station.
If so, I didn't see any last year on our trip into the interior of B.C.

[oldjapanesebikes]

So is it a mandatory law in B.C that you must have ethanol % decals displayed on the pumps or such if its sold at the station..

I think you have to look at it from the reverse perspective - if something is standard, do you need to post it, or do you just post the exceptions ?

[Suzsmokeyallan]

In a perfect world you are right, but they still tell you the RON figures right on the pump and the ever increasing prices at the stations. There somehow seems to be a common trend developing in that the small stations in more remote areas dont have the blends as readily available compared to the ones in suburbia and big city stations.
Ethanol added to gasoline changes its colour and smell, and from my observations it didnt appear to be looking and smelling that way in B.C last summer, so this needs some more looking into during this coming 2011 tour.
In the list that Richard supplied I also noticed a lot of the 'pure gas' stations in Florida just happened to be near or at marinas and landings.
From this, it would appear boaters seem to believe their craft should only use a particular type of fuel.

[Suzsmokeyallan]

So I went looking at some info and saw this from Imperial oil (Esso Canada), note the fourth paragraph in the weblink and the word "may contain"
They do however state they have the labels on the pumps at their stations selling the E blend in these provinces.
It may change this year yet so far I distinctly remember not seeing any of those yellow/green labels from last years trip at any of the pumps I used.

*Ethanol-blended gasoline*
Ethanol-blended gasoline is currently available at participating Esso service stations in British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario. Stations selling ethanol-blended gasoline have a label on the pump indicating the gasoline may contain up to 10 percent ethanol.


http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-Englis ... _fuel.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

[oldjapanesebikes]

This is turning into another oils thread !

The thing with gasoline/petrol that people often forget, is that you really have no idea what you are pumping at most service stations as product swaps between suppliers happen all the time. The trace additives - often including ethanol - that are proprietary to each brand will differ as they are added at the bulk fuel depots when the trucks load, but the basic chemical composition will be much the same as that is driven (small play on words there ) by the vehicle manufacturers and not by the refiners. In Canada whenever you see a Trimac tanker pull up at a service station, all bets are off as to who made whatever it is carrying - that's why companies like Trimac exist.

Here in Calgary, Esso (owned by Exxon) and Shell stations often have the 'same' fuel at the pumps depending on what the supply situation looks like, much as most of the diesel made by Shell and Esso in Edmonton was exported to California as till recently US refiners could not meet the low sulphur legislation there. In BC you only have two refineries, and both of them are on the coast and both are quite small (in total only about 64,000 bbl/day of which perhaps only 30% would be gasoline). Much of the Vancouver area is supplied out of Anacortes in Washington state (using a lot of Canadian crude oil by the way). The eastern part of BC is largely supplied by refineries in Edmonton (Esso, Shell, and Suncor) - and that includes all the little independent stations. And going back to my opening comment, as they are all supplied by drop shipments by tanker trucks that stop at multiple stations, you really have no way of knowing if there is ethanol in them or not.

[H2RICK]

Well, I'll keep taking my chances with Esso because their product, at least in Alberta and BC, seems to be consistent with no "extenders" in any of their grades. Worst case, we can start running premium as that seems to be the best choice for non-"extended" fuel......or maybe fill up at marinas as Allan suggests.
Actually marinas were one of the last places you could get leaded gasoline for the longest time.....but even that's now changed.
I believe/believe that leaded gas is still sold for piston engined aircraft but I could stand to be corrected on this as I'm certainly no aviation expert.

[Suzsmokeyallan]

Thanks for your input on this thread Ian, its interesting to see where the product starts out from refining and how it gets distributed throughout its regional network.
Rick due to your inquisitive nature, just like me, WE will have to look into this whole thing further when we are refilling on our trip to see whos got what, and hopefully know more about what it is they are actually selling.
HA! I can see this whole thing unfolding now, every large B.C lake we pass will be scrutinized for any possible gas station thats near to it.

[Madbuffalo]

Recently BP gas stations in my area started advertising "now with invigorate".

BP US has launched 'Invigorate' — a new gasoline formula that helps protect engines against corrosion deposit and sludge formation resulting in an all round increase in engine performance. The Invigorate formula will be used in all three BP gasoline grades —Regular, Silver and Amoco Ultimate — and will arrive at approximately 5,000 outlets yet this year, with plans to complete the roll-out to all BP locations east of the Rocky Mountains by July 2009.
With continuous use, BP gasoline with Invigorate helps engines run cleaner and prevents deposits from forming on critical parts.
http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?cat ... Id=7047738" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is it just me or do two stroke engines DEPEND on those oil deposits on the cylinder, rod bearings, etc. to run properly?

[jabcb]

Some more info about ethanol in the US.

Ethanol requirements in the US: http://www.e0pc.com/index.php
Six states are mandatory E10 states that provide for some availability of real gas: Florida, Hawaii, Minnesota, Missouri, Oregon & Washington. Other states have no requirement to label gas pumps with ethanol content, and these states will eventually switch to only having ethanol.
Info about the states (click on your state for more info): http://www.e0pc.com/newreality.php

New Hampshire may soon ban ethanol: http://stopethanol.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... -blending/

Article about using ethanol in vintage cars: http://www.hagerty.com/lifestyle/hobby_ ... x?id=55960

NASCAR switched to ethanol: http://www.nascar.com/2010/news/busines ... index.html

After reading this info & looking at http://pure-gas.org/ for gas stations in my state, only polite thing I can think of saying is RATS!

[H2RICK]

Thanks for the links, jabcb.

Extracts from the article on using various ethanol blends in vintage cars:

The only other noticeable concern was corrosion inside the steel drum used as a fuel tank, suggesting that it may be prudent to coat or seal steel fuel tanks.

Bloody lovely !!!

In other words, both organizations (which promote ethanol) acknowledge that using gasoline containing ethanol in older vehicles requires additional — and sometimes costly — measures.

But the EPA and the Renewable Fuels Association could care less how much it costs you!!! Besides, the EPA bureaucrats really want you to put your vintage bike into the crusher, not ride it.....ESPECIALLY if it's a stroker.

Exposure to the fuel was followed by a resting period during which parts were exposed to air. Given such exposure, soft parts swelled in use and shrank as they dried, while metallic parts exposed to air were subject to corrosion.

Isn't THAT just ducky ??

Guys, do yourself a favour and read that one article, if none of the others. It's well worth the 5 minute read, IMO. VERY enlightening.

[two-stroke-brit]

will stabil or such like help against some of these affects.
cheers mark

[Cliff]

Customer service from Shell Canada explained it this way:
"The mandate states that fuels sold in Canada have to have an average minimum content of 5% ethanol. Our Bronze may contain up to 10%, our Silver may contain up to 5% ethanol, and our V Power contains 0% ethanol."
Creative accounting at it's best!!

[Cliff]

will stabil or such like help against some of these affects.
cheers mark

I've heard good things about Sea Foam! Going to give it a try!